Leilani

I may be biased, but it sounds so much better that way.

I love my country. I just can’t stand some of the people in it.
Richard P.

I never understood the pledge of allegiance.
Why do you need to program your citizens to be loyal? If you like where you live and believe in what your country stands for would you not automatically give it your allegiance?
Does someone stand around watching to see who doesn’t say it? Is this your way of detecting spys? Do people that don’t say it suddenly disappear?

Seems to me that the same mentality that guides religious thinking guides the core of American thinking. That regardless of the truth, repeated often enough they will believe it.
Liokae

I understood the use of the pledge in general, but never why it had to be said daily during school. It always seemed to me that it was basically the same as an oath; you should be taught what it’s meant, then at some occasion choose whether or not to say it, once. If it has to be said multiple times, it obviously doesn’t mean much.
heironymous

Hemant – You make the word communist sound like it’s a bad thing…
Jonas

The original was general and could apply to any country:

‘I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.’

In 1923/24 it became the Flag of the USA.

Ref:

http://oldtimeislands.org/pledge/pledge.htm
bigjohn756

How many stars were on Porky’s flag?
Givesgoodemail

See here for additional fun facts about the Pledge (including the Bellamy Salute and who was responsible for the godbag additions to the Pledge itself).
Joyfulbaby

The “Under God” part was added in the fifties. This just means that the cartoon was created before that.
MaryD

How strange, pledging allegiance to a bit of fabric.
Alexis

When I was an xtian, and still in school I felt ashamed doing the pledge because it seemed to me to be a piece of idol worship. Now, as an atheist, it seems to me to be a piece of idol worship.
Alexis

Many years ago in that bastion of high literature, the Readers’ Digest, I read an Asian American’s interpretation of the pledge as it sounded to her ears in childhood. I’ve forgotten parts of it so this is an approximation.

I led the pigeons to the flag
of the new mighty stakes of America
and to the public of which it stans
one Asian under guard
invisible
with a little tea and just rice for all
Fett101

48 stars, bigjohn756. (6×8)
akak

I teach 8th grade and we say the pledge everyday. I refuse to say the “under god” part. Every year I get a few kids who notice this and ask me why I don’t say it. While I really want to respond “because there is no god,” I do like my job and don’t want to deal with the parent blow back from asserting that (which is ridiculous that that is the case but still). So I just tell them its because there should be a seperation of church and state and the term under god wasn’t in the original pledge so I won’t say it.
Trace

Ricahrd P: “Why do you need to program your citizens to be loyal?”

&

Liokae: “I understood the use of the pledge in general, but never why it had to be said daily during school”

Tin foil hat on:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Underground_History_of_American_Education
SickoftheUS

Richard Wade wrote:
Seems to me that the same mentality that guides religious thinking guides the core of American thinking. That regardless of the truth, repeated often enough they will believe it.

Well said. The real victory here wouldn’t be getting God out of the Pledge – it would be getting rid of the whole tribe-think Pledge.

Some friends tried to get me to join Toastmasters about 10 years ago. Guess what – they said the Pledge before every meeting, and apparently that’s not uncommon in that organization. A certain personality type just eats this shit up.
Jon Peterson

As a follow-up to Fett101’s post:

That implies that this cartoon was created somewhere between early 1935 and 1959 (Alaska became the 49th state on January 3rd of that year). Indeed, a search on Wikipedia reveals that the short “Old Glory” was created in 1936. Since “under God” was added to the officially recognized Pledge in early 1954, this unfortunately discounts any theories that this short was produced as a political statement of any kind.

On an unrelated note: It was extremely frustrating to me that NOT saying the Pledge was a punishable offense throughout my elementary school. I originally stated it without “under God”, but after a fellow student complained (why were they paying attention to me anyway?), and I was reprimanded and told to recite the Pledge in full, I simply refused to speak it at all. That got me several detentions. Worth it, but frustrating nonetheless.
Alexis

John Peterson says “this unfortunately discounts any theories that this short was produced as a political statement of any kind”. This however belongs to a slew of cartoons from Warner Brothers, Disney and all the others made during WWII specifically to promote patriotism during the war effort.
Alexis

In Joseph Heller’s book Catch 22, there is a chapter on loyalty pledges. Nobody liked Major Major Major. They doubted his loyalty. They instituted policies of reciting and signing loyalty pledges to eat mess, to get supplies, to get services…They wouldn’t let Major Major recite or sign any pledges. Since he didn’t recite or sign any pledges, they knew he was not loyal.
Richard P.

SickoftheUS..

That was actually me, I would not want the confusion, just in case R.W. does not feel the same way.

My experience with toastmasters was very different. At the opening of our meetings we had an invocation, in which I don’t remember anything religious. We were a “must be single group” that was full of young scientists and engineers. Really I was out of my league but, it raised my level of social interaction and taught me many things besides the good speaking technics.
To bad your experience was negative, it was an awesome learning experience.
Richard Wade

SickoftheUS and Richard P.,
Yes I agree with both of you. It may be a very long time before we let go of tribal-nationalism, but getting rid of this vestige of the red scare would be a good start. Back then, people were scrambling to publicly demonstrate their patriotism/piety so that the McCarthyists wouldn’t blacklist them.

I lived for almost four years in the pre-“under God” United States. Ah, those were the days.
Jon Peterson

Alexis:
Yes, the cartoon did have a political motive… but it is irrelevant to “under God” or lack thereof. Yes, my wording used the phrase “of any kind”, which you’ve shown can be misread.. but I’m quite sure that the context of the sentence, as well as the mannerisms of human communication in our society, makes it clear what I meant. Please do not be petty.
Kimpatsu

Incidentally, yesterday was the 56th anniversary of the addition of the words “Under God” in the Pledge.
Yesterday was also my 46th birthday. Coincidence? I think not!
Epistaxis

If you ever find yourself at a recitation of the Pledge for some unforeseeable reason, stick to the pre-McCarthy version and you’ll be saying “indivisible” while everyone else says “under god,” ironically.
Yet Another Atheist

Read “Nothing But The Truth” by AVI. If memory serves, the entire story is based upon the main character, a junior high school student, refusing to stand and recite the Pledge. It was an awesome book to read growing up and was actually assigned by my English teacher in (I think) 6th grade.
george

@Alexis,

I had the same thought when I was little – that we were pledging ourselves to an idol other than God! I also got really scared when my fourth grade teacher read the Chronicles of Narnia, because I thought it was going to indoctrinate us into worshipping Aslan.

While I was in college I visited a super-conservative church in Maryland, and during worship service they sang “Battle Hymn of the Republic.” I also thought it was idolatrous and did not sing along.

Now I could care less if they sang the Oscar Meyer weiner song during worship.
muggle

I’m with the camp of let’s get rid of the whole totalarian thing. Getting rid of “under god” would be a nice thing but it’s only a beginning. Kids should not be forced/coerced to pledge allegiance to anything.
JMH

As someone who seriously considered getting an american citizenship, I thought long and hard about such things, and I had no problem with the pre-cold war version. (The original original is even better honestly)
But then I looked at the citizen oath, and that cured me right quick of any notions. That thing is disgusting. IMNSHO
martymankins

I’ve seen that cartoon hundreds of times over the years and it never bothered me that he didn’t say anything about God in the pledge.
MsLoree

I was disappointed to see the cartoon had been edited to remove the word “equality” from between “liberty” and “justice”. You can just hear Porky stating to say the “e” in equality and then an abrupt transition to “and justice”.

I guess leaving it in would have made it seem too godless commie-ish.

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