My Day at an Anti-Vaccination Rally

Well said on the note, Jamie! I think you’re absolutely right that children have needlessly died.

I think what bugs me is that the anti-vax movement is not skepticism; it’s paranoia.

Personally, I’m distrustful of the pharmaceutical industry and how they market and push drugs, but vaccines have been around for decades. It is a proven fact that vaccines have done far more good than harm.

To be certain, even with great quality control, a bad batch of vaccines could have some ill effects. These people, however, are against the entire concept!

(also, these morons makes us who are distrustful of the ‘big pharma’ for more intelligent reasons look like cranks.)

Karen… that’s exactly what is meant by the post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy. You have no way of knowing whether your baby would’ve turned out that way without the vaccination, so why blame the vaccination? Just because the changes happened afterward doesn’t mean that the vaccine caused them. I know that when you see these kind of changes in your child, you get frustrated and angry and want to find something or someone to blame. But sometimes, all there is to blame is genetics.

Regarding the Hug Me, I’m Vaccinated cards: When you’re fighting misinformation, you need to be sure you’re not sowing some of your own. Vaccines aren’t “completely safe.” Nothing in medicine is. I know the opposition says they’re “completely dangerous” and it’s a war of rhetoric rather than facts, but saying they’re completely safe is a good way to get someone to call you a liar.

I’m actually surprised to see this post on this blog. The one really hardcore anti-vax person I know is also a hardcore atheist, and says many things similar to Karen.

However, I respectfully disagree with both. As a developmental psychologist, I am pro-vaccine. Yes, children do change around the time they receive their MMR vaccine, but there are so many developmental milestones happening at that point in time, it’s impossible to point causation at the vaccine. And what’s more important, there’s far more children out there that have had the MMR vaccine that DON’T go through what Karen has described above.

The vaccine-doubters must simply come to terms with the alternative: the return to prominence of childhood diseases such as mumps, measles, and rubella.

Wakefield’s premise is questionable. If vaccines cause autism, then it follows that the majority of autistic children must also have received vaccines. Yet, they doubtless all wore diapers, too – is there an insidious link between diaper use and autism?

@Amy:

It wasn’t that long ago that Catholic schools forced children to be right-handed, because of a perception that left-handedness was ‘wrong’ or ‘strange.’

What we really need to do is invest in sound science and research on autism and other variances in brain function – whether it’s autism or Alzheimer’s Disease – rather than ostracizing them. Superstitious claptrap like ‘it’s the vaccines!’ isn’t helping anyone.

I think part of the problem is many people often think of harm via an action as worse than harm via inaction. This is the famous “should I divert the train” scenario: where a train is coming and going to kill 5 people, but you can flip the switch and divert it onto a track where it will kill one person. People are evenly divided on what is the right choice. similarly, these anti vaccine folks I assume would all vote “do nothing and let 5 die”.

However, in the case of vaccination, the ratio is not 5 to 1, but thousands and thousands to 1. For that is the ratio. We have to admit vaccines are not completely safe (for nothing is) but look at the real ratios of harm. The truth is if we don’t have at least 95% of children vaccinated, more and more will children will die or become disfigured. Even if they did cause autism (which they don’t) the ratio of death and disfigurement from vaccinating vs not vaccinating would still justify giving the vaccines.

Also, we seem to have forgotten already the horrible destruction wrought by measles, polio, mumps and other “childhood diseases” on children as recently as 50 years ago. Maybe we need to remind people. My (adoptive) grandfather became sterile from the mumps, when he was a teacher one mother actually sent her kids to school with the mumps – she had no idea that it could make her or other children sterile (he sent the kids home). Measles can kill children and even adults, but nowadays people think the measles are like chicken pox (which ironcially can also kill).

Besides showing the true ratio (the more likely harm to children from not vaccinating) and reminding parents how awful these diseases are, other arguments may be to convince them that not vaccinating as an active choice rather than passive inaction, to overcome the phenomenon above. So they don’t think of not vaccinating as letting nature take its course, but rather a choice by the parent that will have repurcussions. Though logically that may not be true (I’m not great at philosophy), you might be able to convince them, as Rush sang, “you still have made a choice.”

Also maybe use guilt: you may kill your neighbor’s child, not your own, due to the lack of herd immunity, and show how since this is already happening in the UK where deaths from measles are on the rise over the past few years (about 10 kids died I think over the past few years?) and cases of measles are skyrocketing, because the vaccination rate went down from the 95 to 87%. Both cases and deaths from measles are now falling in poor countries, and rising in the developed world!

@plutosdad:

It’s not just that unvaccinated children put others at risk, but the modern business enviroment w/ limited paid sick days is overriding common sense … and parents/adults, too, come to work when ill.

How often have you encountered a co-worker who has a bronchial cough, only to hear, “It’s okay, I’m on antibiotics”?

(This last time, that same co-worker turned out to have been lugging around a case of chicken pox she caught from her kid.)

Coincidentally, I just watched the Frontline documentary on this issue yesterday. I thought they were morons beforehand, but listening to a whiny woman complain about giving polio vaccinations in a country that doesn’t have polio anymore made me want to scream.

Narvi,

A very good point. Autism, even sever Autism is far superior to going to your child’s funeral. I so wish these people could understand that without having to go through the funeral process, but I fear that is what it will take.

Ouch!! My ears are bleeding! I wish I hadn’t clicked that link to listen to Vaccine Gestapo. I need to go listen to Roy Zimmerman now to help me recover. 😉

Great report, Jamie!

@ TE – “I am not so concerned with the vaccines causing autism as I am with other health issues that can arise from vaccines that are hardly tested and are pushed for illnesses that are hardly serious – like chicken pox.”

Pardon me, but chicken pox can be a very serious health issue. It almost killed my mother – when she was an ADULT.

Back in the early 80s when I was in second grade, there was a chicken pox outbreak at school. Those of us who weren’t immediately infected were encouraged to be around the kids who were so we would get sick & thereby gain immunity to the disease, the common wisdom at the time being that chicken pox wasn’t that deadly to kids and a lifelong immunity was worth the inconvenience of a few weeks of itchy puss-filled bumps, fever and fatigue. It was a miserable itchy few weeks for us kids, but since we got to miss school, it seemed like a good trade off. However, this plan assumed that the adults in the household had already gone through the same thing as kids.

This was the case with my father, but not my mother. Not only did she get terribly sick, her immune system was already compromised by MS – she had the aggressive/progressive type – so the effects of the disease were far worse on her. She was already weakened, using a walker before she got chicken pox, and after being bedridden for weeks and dealing with complications like fluid-filled lungs, infected sores from the bumps that had broken open and a compromised digestive system, never fully recovered. Her walker had to be traded in for a wheelchair and she had to start wearing adult diapers. She was 37 when this happened. She died 4 years later and I’d hate to think that life-threatening bout of chicken pox weakened her so badly that it took years off her life (she eventually died from pneumonia).

If there had been a vaccine available for chicken pox when I was a child, you can be damn sure I would have gotten it if we’d known it would have spare my mother those weeks of hell and possibly kept her strong enough to live a few years longer. As it is, I’m eternally thankful that I and the other kids I was around were fully vaccinated with everything available at the time, because any number of illness that might have killed or disabled us would most definitely have killed my mother.

what’s wrong with voluntary eugenics?

It’s easy to jump on the “people who don’t vaccinate are evil” bandwagon when you aren’t taking the time to actually listen to the anti-vax side. It’s obvious from the article here that the author didn’t actually go in with an open mind enough to research some of the claims being made. She mentions how the anti-vax side calls vaccines and tylenol “evil” and implies that they are crazy for believing that the pharmaceutical companies do harm. A recent published study shows that tylenol, when administered with vaccines, hinders the vaccines ability to create a typical immune response. This has been standard practice for many years, why is it just now coming out that it might be a bad idea to combine the two? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33331643/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/

So if they are just now discovering that pain medication following vaccination can be lowering the assumed immunity, that also affects the theory of herd immunity. Speaking of herd immunity, in order for it to work a percentage of the entire community must be immune, not just babies and children. Adults who are not getting boosters on time and who are not actually gaining immunity, are putting a damper on herd immunity. Where is the push for adults to stay current? Furthermore, how many of you spouting herd immunity have actually had your immunity levels checked? It’s a false notion that vaccines create immunity 100% of the time so if you wanted to be good citizens you would be having titers done and getting boosters as many times as it takes for you to be immune. If you want to prove vaccines are safe and effective then maybe you should prove by example.
If you actually believe that pharmaceutical companies aren’t providing incentive for doctors to sell their product, I’d like to know what fantasy you are living in. Walking into a doctor’s office, you are immediately surrounded by advertisements for pharmaceutical companies. Do you think doctors just allow them to advertise for free? At my doctor’s office, most of the equipment like the scales and blood pressure machines are gifted by pharma. They are clearly labeled with the companies name and slogans. This is advertisement 101 people, you give someone something for “free” and they are a lot more likely to return the gratitude by recommending your product. That is legal and standard practice among medical professionals and pharma. The fact that a lot of the ACIP members also work for pharma companies or have in the past, shows their bias. I mean you did hear about Julie Gerberding, head of the CDC resigned and is now president of Merck vaccines right? Unbiased, right.

Ok, lastly, since this is already really long, the non vaccination movement has little to do with autism. Parents who don’t vaccinate, do so because of a ton of other reasons. Autism is very low on the list. It has more to do with the unknown side effects of all of the stuff in vaccines. Mercury is washed out now, leaving trace amounts, great. What about all of the other stuff? Animal cells, human diploid cells, antibiotics, aluminum, etc. It is a FACT that vaccinates are not tested for their ability to cause cancer, affect fertility or cause mutations of your DNA. It’s also contradicted to give a child certain vaccines if they are allergic to any of the ingredients. How would you know a newborn is allergic when he is only hours old? All of this can be seen if you read the package inserts to any vaccine. This info is supposed to be available for any person receiving a vaccine but when was the last time the doctor gave you that information? It’s like the pharmacy handing you pills without all of the precautionary information attached. Dangerous.
It’s nice how you all think people who don’t vaccinate are doing so out of blind faith and hysterics when in reality, we do so because of logical thought and using science to prove science. The whole point of science is to continually make changes based on other scientific evidence. You base your entire faith of herd immunity on lowered rates of diseases without taking into account the change in hygiene and public health and the change in diagnosis for these diseases post vaccination. Forgive us who dare to question to mainstream. I would have expected more out of atheists and free thinkers.

Jamie, really great and commendable work!

@TE: Maybe your kid got an allergic reaction to the vaccines. Have you had that tested?

If he does, you should be out there supporting vaccines with all your might. Our vaccinations are providing your kid with the protection his body won’t allow him to have.

I don’t need evidence. My child stopped breathing several times over the course of 3 days, from a few hours after he got his vaccines. When I stopped vaccinating him, he stopped having the reactions.

It’s entirely possible that your child is one of the tiny minority of individuals that is unable to receive vaccines due to allergy or hypersensitivity. This means that he is reliant on a vaccination rate of 95% in the population which maintains herd immunity and prevents infections from reaching a critical mass.

For this reason you should be more in favour of large scale vaccination to protect your child from the ravages of epidemics.

Very cool, Jamie!

I think it’s important to remind people when their actions may have very serious consequences for people outside their scope.

Non-vaccination causes much greater risks for people in the community like young infants (before they can be fully immunized) and people with compromised immune systems.

If someone is going to put babies, people undergoing chemotherapy, and kids with chronic health problems at risk, I hope they would do it only after thorough scrutiny of the scientific issue. Jenny McCarthy or Jim Carrey’s experience as the parent of an autistic child just doesn’t meet my research standards.

A couple of points to be made…

To start with, Andrew’s study has not be discredited in the least, and in fact his findings of GI distress in autistic children has indeed been replicated several times now. What was retracted were the implications that the problem he identified was a direct result of the MMR, which even he said (if you would read the actual published study) would require more in depth study to determine.

Furthermore, the GMC hearings against Wakefield found a single instance of “unethical behavior”, namely the drawing of blood for control purposes in a non-clinical setting. Having the Lancet toss the study based upon this is the same as a mugger getting off because a cop failed to read Miranda to him when he was arrested. I have to question why his drawing blood from will persons with their willing parents present would be unethical simply because it wasn’t at Royal Free, when vaccines are routinely dispensed in non-clinical settings all the time. Sort of a goose and gander thing.

Secondly, children haven’t died because of Dr. Wakefield. MMR compliance rates were actually lower prior to his study’s publication than they were following, and more parents are declining vaccination now as a direct result of the behavior of regulators like the CDC and MOH than they are because of a single research paper. When it is blatantly obvious that the people who are promoting vaccines are not telling the truth about certain aspects of it, public confidence erodes and will continue to do so.

Speaking specifically about the measles, the mortality in the Western world from this particular disease had declined by more than 90% nearly two decades before the first vaccine for measles had ever been developed. Those who promote compulsory vaccination the loudest will frequently spout unsubstantiated figures that measles kills X number of children worldwide, when in fact the majority of those deaths are estimated in areas where no census is possible, there are no health officials keeping anything remotely resembling a body count, and in fact it wasn’t the measles per se that killed the children that are seen, it was malnutrition, lack of potable water and the collateral societal damage that comes from war and famine. Even if we were to somehow completely erradicate measles these children would still be dying from the root underlying causes.

Finally, though people like Offit want us to loathe and fear those persons who choose to opt out of vaccinating do so using language that makes it appear to be an all or nothing scenario. Many of the people who question vaccine safety do not believe it is all or nothing, they wish to make better decisions based upon the information they are able to get, often from medical professionals and from peer-reviewed publications. They do not want to acknowledge that the US has paid out nearly $2 Billion for vaccine damages, including hundreds of deaths since the inception of the NVICP, despite having a compliance rate with reporting vaccine adverse events of less than 10% by the CDC’s own admission before Burton’s Committee. They do not want to let parents read the package inserts from the manufacturers who list contraindicators that the AAP encourages pediatricians to ignore. They do not allow discussion as to why we apply the same risk/benefit ratio for a truly dangerous disease to one that is at best a nuisance, and in fact may actually help the body immune system get stronger. They do not want people to think about how the US has dropped down the list for infant mortality all the while aggressively adding more vaccines until our children have a lower chance at life than any of the European nations despite having more than twice as many shots as their children. And they certainly do no admit that we have destroyed the natural immunity to many diseases that people had from catching them years ago, opting instead for the temporary protection of vaccines (none of which lasts more than a decade and some less than that), meaning nursing mothers no longer share their immunity with their infants, effectively causing them to be MORE at risk for disease complications than if we had left well enough alone.

Of course, those who profit like nothing better. By creating this last scenario, they set the stage to have women of child bearing age primed to need multiple boosters, which has just created a whole new market where one never was before. Dr. Healy said it best when she left the NIH. The question of vaccines’ link with autism has far from been answered, from a scientific POV.

I have always been a supporter of vaccinations, but even more so after having visited a country where vaccines are not routinely avaliable and coming face to face with some of the horrible diseases that we have eradicated here. We do not want these diseases coming back. They are horrible. If you have ever seen a child disfigured by polio, you would be at the front of the line to make sure your child was vaccinated. I think one of the reasons so many are willing to not vaccinate their children is because they have never seen the end results of these diseases firsthand. Even the mumps or measles can damage a person for life. I know of women in other countries who have carried their children for days across rugged land to get them to a free vaccination clinic because they are familiar with the horrors of these diseases and are desperate to protect their children.

I also agree with a previous poster that American adults should be getting their titers done to double check their immunity. Unfortunately, it is not covered by most insurance plans and is expensive to have done. I stay up to date on my immunizations and have had titers done because I don’t want to pass along something unknowingly to someone whose immune system cannot handle it.

Unbelieveble. That was a Freedom of Choice Rally. You would think someone who wants the choice whether or not to have religion pushed on them would understand those who want to have the freedoms to choose which biologicals they have injected into them or their children. The term “anti-vaccine” is a propaganda word to diminish a persons rights.
I fully support your right to give yourself and your children as many vaccines as you wish. I really wish you would respect my rights as well.
And by the way, my belief in God has greatly dimished since my second son also was severely injured right after a round of vaccines. But I try to remember that it was MAN who has done this to them, not God.

Dr. Wakefield suggested it may be worth looking at spliting the MMR up, and giving the individual shots for mumps, measles and rubella. Yeah, that is pretty crazy talk. He never said not to vaccinate for measles. He suggested it may be best to give the measles vaccine alone, away from any other live virus vaccines. In response, besides the complete and utter smear campaign against him, the pharmaceutical companies stopped producing the single vaccines, so parents were only given the choice of MMR or nothing. Nothing like a little strong arming of the consumer, eh? That doesn’t go over well with a lot of parents.
If anyone REALLY wants to understand the controversy surrounding this issue, read Wakefields book: Callous Disregard. I got mine on Amazon.com.

Nothing at all to do with this article, but I read your blog through Google Reader and there’s always an ad appended at the end. I’m fine with that, you gotta save up your dowry somehow ( j/k). Amusingly, however, this article was accompanied by an ad to vote for Carly Fiorina, and “send Barbara Boxer home”.

Good article. You’re kind of a babe – did anybody mention that yet? I didn’t read all of the comments, so I’m not sure. Well if it hasn’t been mentioned, I’m probably just saying what everybody else is thinking.

Trace & inmyhead9, all the best to both of you and your kids.

Wow, this kinda made me cry. I will post a link on http://www.rationalmoms.com.

Great work.

plutosdad,

That is false, people are not evenly divided on the trolley problems. They come down on the side of the one on the second trolley problem (stab and push a fat man) for the reason you stated, but it has more to do with “using” someone instead of just being placed in situation. This is confirmed by a third scenario where there’s still a switch for two tracks but there’s a fat man on the track and the track loops round from him toward the five people on the other track.

–

I think that crazies scan blogs for talk on vaccination and descend with inane and ignorant comments. I haven’t seen the stupid levels so high here before.

Julie, that is a great site. I have been looking for a good blog for rational thinking moms. YAY. My husband has read atheistdad.com ever since he found out we were pregnant. Now I have one. I love blogs.

One of the bloggers at ScienceBlogs (Janet D. Stemwedel – dual PhD’s in philosophy and chemistry) has suggested that parents who opt-out of vaccination for reasons other than medical necessity are “free-riders” from an ethics perspective:

“Vaccine refuseniks are free-riders”
http://scienceblogs.com/ethicsandscience/2009/06/vaccine_refuseniks_are_free-ri.php

Here are two quotes from Janet’s column:

I thought, therefore, that it would be worthwhile to examine at more length my claim that vaccination refuseniks are free-riders.

First, what’s a free-rider?

In the simplest terms, a free-rider is someone who accepts a benefit without paying for it. The free-rider is able to partake of this benefit because others have assumed the costs necessary to bring it about. But if no one was willing to assume those costs (or indeed, in some cases, if there is not a critical mass of people assuming those costs), then that benefit would not be available, either.

Thus, when I claim that people who opt out of vaccination are free-riders on society, what I’m saying is that they are receiving benefits for which they haven’t paid their fair share — and that they receive these benefits only because other members of society have assumed the costs by being vaccinated.

***

The people who vaccinate are assuming the costs that bring us a largely epidemic-free way of life. Those who opt out of vaccinating are taking that benefit for free.

I understand that the decision not to vaccinate is often driven by concerns about what costs those who receive the vaccines might bear, and whether those costs might be worse than the benefits secured by vaccination. Set aside for the moment the issue of whether these concerns are well grounded in fact. Instead, let’s look at the parallel me might draw:

If I vaccinate my kids, no matter what your views about the etiology of autism and asthma, you are not going to claim that my kids getting their shots raise your kids’ odds of getting autism or asthma. But if you don’t vaccinate your kids, even if I vaccinate mine, your decision does raise my kids’ chance of catching preventable infectious diseases. My decision to vaccinate doesn’t hurt you (and probably helps you in the ways discussed above). Your decision not to vaccinate could well hurt me.

The asymmetry of these choices is pretty unavoidable.

I know a lot of folks view the decision to vaccinate as a personal libertarian decision that only affect their families.

The problem with that view is the microbes don’t always respect that political philosophy … apparently they haven’t read enough Ayn Rand.

:^)

Michelle,

Choosing not to vaccinate does not put a vaccinated child at risk, it only puts those not vaccinated at risk. Even a vaccinated person can be a carrier of disease (without actually being ill from the virus) and spread it to those not vaccinated.

The immune system is not perfect, therefore not everyone who gets a vaccine gets immunity, therefore you are incorrect.

Choosing to vaccinate or not is a personal choice, and one that I made with research and support of our family physician. There is science on both sides of the fence.

For some it is not, they are unable to get vaccinated, they rely on others to get vaccinated so it’s unlikely they’ll meet someone who will infect them.

For my family, I considered the issues of the number of vaccines given at one time, and within such a short time-frame in an infant’s life, mass-immunization for diseases that aren’t that threatening (eg varicella), the benefits of developing the immune system naturally and the benefits of exposure to disease (again, varicella) to help boost one’s natural immunity over a lifetime. For example, exposure to varicella as an naturally immune adult will help boost my immunity and aid in the prevention of developing shingles. Because children are routinely given the vaccine now (at only 70% effectiveness) the natural disease is much rarer, limiting my exposure.

What are the issues with the number of vaccines? What are the issues with such a short time-frame of an infant’s life? What are the benefits of developing the immune system naturally? Why can’t you just get boosters instead of being repeatedly exposed to a virus? Are you using the naturalistic fallacy?

Some of the other comments here are just tangled webs of random vague claims (or accusations). If there’s science on both sides of the fence then why have you not backed up any of your claims?

Sylvia:

Parents deserve the right to decide for themselves.

You are not deciding for yourself. You are deciding for your child, and for everyone they come in contact with.

Thanks Hitch.

My sister is deaf because of measles. When I was in school we never knew which of our classmates would be back after summer break because polio would be rampant in the summer. We never saw whooping cough or diphtheria, those had vaccines already but we heard the stories from our parents and grandparents.

Now whooping cough is back big time. We have measles epidemics here about every 3 years that close the schools. I expect any day to hear about cases of diphtheria and the incidence of polio, while still very, very low is rising. (Not that long ago the average was -8- cases per year, now it’s about 20)

My first great-grandchild was born yesterday. People who refuse to vaccinate, who reduce the herd immunity ON PURPOSE, scare the shit out of me for his prospects.

ps, I didn’t know how to put things in the gray squares as quotes, so I apologize if what I said looks very cryptic.

People want safe vaccines. Why persecute parents like Michael Belkin whose child died from an adverse reaction? Have you read his testimonies?

To fully understand the complications of this issue, read Dr. Wakefield’s book “Callous Disregard.” Also read “Silenced Witnesses” and “Silenced Witnesses II” by the UK parents whose children’s biopsies show vaccine-strain measles in their gastrointestinal lesions.

It’s so easy to play armchair quarterback when one is genetically blessed. This is not a made-up phenomenon; vaccine injuries are documented in NVICP cases, in VAERS reports, and in minutes of meetings of ACCV and NVAC.

What are you people doing to help prevent vaccine injury? By failing to acknowledge and support vaccine injury victims, you give tacit approval to lower vaccine quality standards.

You who think you know so much, know so very little. You have well memorized what you learned in school and failed to investigate any further. You think of yourselves as questioners and skeptics, but you are merely reciters of the vaccine “gospel”–a rather ironic position for atheists.

Science is about asking questions and there are plenty of valid reasons to question vaccine safety, efficacy, and most especially the much touted “herd immunity” hypothesis–which as far as I can tell remains hypothetical only.

“Friendly” is hardly the adjective I would use to describe the person who wrote this blog. Thoughtful does not come to mind either. Brain-washed? Maybe.

Consider reading “The Virus and the Vaccine,” or perhaps “Vaccine A”. Maybe “The Fluoride Deception.” How about “Doubt Is Their Product.” You might find that much of what you “learned” and think you know, isn’t quite the full story–or even half of it.

I for one am awaiting the results of a transparent, long-term (eg several years) study, conducted by blinded researchers without conflicts of interest, comparing the health and development of vaccinated versus never vaccinated children. A study of fully vaccinated versus never vaccinated monkeys might be informative as well.

Those are the only studies that can truly put to rest this debate about the safety and value of vaccines. I truly will be very relieved if such studies show vaccines are as safe and effective as their promoters insist. But at this point, I really, really need to see the data–and all of it!

I am sorry, but I no longer believe what I was taught–nor what many voices here repeat ad nauseum. Repeating the same thing over and over may propagate an idea or an opinion, but it doesn’t make it right or true. Science is about discovering truth.

So, if vaccines are as safe and effective as many of you think, then the results of such studies will prove you right. Vaccine supporters have everything to gain and nothing to lose by seeing to it that vaccinated versus never vaccinated studies of monkeys and people get done carefully, honestly, openly, and soon. Really, why haven’t such studies been done already?

PS Tylenol, per FDA, is currently the number one cause of liver failure and the need for liver transplants in the US.

I’m both amazed and disappointed at the utterly un-skeptical positions of some of the most recent commenters on this blog. You act as though you’ve become enlightened to some hidden reality because you’ve read books that disagree with some authority figure. Guess what? The science is against you. Sorry.

You talk about people seeking truth or being open-minded, when in fact all you’re really saying is that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong and must not have looked at the right evidence. You seize onto anecdotes and counterculture as if they have anything whatsoever to do with empirical investigation. Sorry, again – the science is against you.

The overall result of studies into vaccinations is that people who have adverse reactions to vaccines are in the vast minority and that their reactions are the result of genetic predispositions, contamination, or allergy. Maybe you want to think that there’s some big, magical conspiracy out there. Go ahead. Meanwhile, those of us who live in the real world where facts actually matter more than a desire for adventure will continue to vaccinate our kids and do our best to build immunity levels up to the point where you may not have to vaccinate yours. You can thank us later!

I dare you to debate me,I am the dad of a very severely vaccine damaged child. If you would agree not to lie to you own self
in 30 min. to 1 hr you would be anti vaccine,this I can guarantee you. I can prove that the CDC has absolutly no science at all.

@Bridget Touche.

Concerned Parent,

Smallpox, you say? So when was the last time we vaccinated for smallpox in the USA? What’s that….over 30 years ago? Wow. And only 20% of the population was vaccinated, is that right? Herd immunity you say? Amazing that we’re not all dying of smallpox now. I guess you all are seeing outbreaks daily since no one is vaccinated anymore. It’s definitely making a comeback since we no longer vaccinate! Please feel free to take note of my sarcasm.

I feel as though I shouldn’t have to explain this to you, but given the staggering displays of idiocy going on in the comments, perhaps I have to. Smallpox was almost eliminated before the 20th century in the US due to a long vaccination program that had started 100 years before then, in the 1800s. Smallpox was eradicated from the whole world in the 20th century due to vaccination, the only way someone can catch it is in a lab, and people who work with it are required to have vaccinations. When the incidence of a virus is very low and its spread is slow (like for instance smallpox) you don’t need a large amount of vaccination.

Speaking of herd immunity, more than 60% of adults in some areas are not up to date on their boosters, so that makes herd immunity a moot point. Yet I don’t see such a drastic increase of disease to reflect that lack of herd immunity. Hmmmm and why do the statistics keep changing? Is it 95%, 97%, or 99% these days? What’s the magic number? What about those populations that experience 100% vaccine failure? Surely we can’t blame the vaccine-free individuals in such cases, because obviously the disease is spreading via vaccinated individuals.

Without having researched this, I assume to model herd immunity and find a threshold you would have to take into account human behaviour (i.e. travel), means of infection (i.e. water), speed of spread (i.e. how long it takes for a person to become infected), and how contagious the virus is (i.e. how many people are infected after exposure).

Although I’m not an expert, at least I understand what “herd immunity” means, also that those different viruses have different thresholds (hence the different “magic” numbers), and that you spout a load of nonsense about things you clearly don’t understand. There’s so much blatant bullshit in these comments that fail even the most trivial logic, that I wonder whether you’re going to understand my replies, or whether we will witness the Dunning–Kruger effect.

Herd immunity is basically about calculating the likely exposure to an infection, and using that knowledge to find a percent of immune people needed for the remaining people to be very unlikely to encounter the infection. This is just my logical deduction from what the definition of “herd immunity” is, it seems so blatantly obvious that I did not need to look it up.

@Aj:

“I think that crazies scan blogs for talk on vaccination and descend with inane and ignorant comments. I haven’t seen the stupid levels so high here before.”

My thoughts exactly. So many emotional arguments and assertions, so little logic and evidence. *sigh*

Great piece, Jamie–very creepy stuff you witnessed. Almost reminds me of my mom (what else is new?), who will always side with the most pseudo-scientific view for that very reason–that working-class hero attitude that all the official edumacated sciencey types are just arrogant and evil and credibility is to be immediately afforded to any challenger, no matter how dubious. Also, I suspect that the idea of being some kind of cutting-edge pioneer rebel is the more exciting position, which is another reason my mom often seems to side with dubious pseudoscience. I wouldn’t accuse anti-vaxxers of thinking that way overtly, but sometimes it really sounds like there is some subconscious element of this when I listen to them talk.

She’s not an anti-vaxxer and never was, however. She got started late though and is old enough to remember polio (I remember her telling me why this guy on Sesame Street had leg braces/crutches when I was little and then explaining that the polio vaccine was why that doesn’t happen anymore), and when I told her about the blood tests at the birthday party and the lumbar punctures and colonoscopies performed on children–while sidestepping any involvement from the Ethical Board–pretty much filled her with so much disgust that I’m fairly sure she’s “immune” from the wackaloonery in this case! 😉

Well, she takes lumbar punctures very seriously, and as a much more serious risk than any vaccine at any damn age, so the fact that he’d just take it upon himself to risk children in that way with no immediate health-problem need to do so pissed her off big-time.

@MikeTheInfidel:

That’s the problem with people armed with emotional arguments: They don’t think they need much more than that. If anything. They genuinely believe that even a single emotional anecdote transcends the value of any and all hard evidence.

When making a point backed up with simple stats, for example “vaccine rates are 60% in some areas”, can you please link to where you got this information from?

I know it’s pretty time consuming to do this, especially if you want to dig out original sources, but unless you link your information then your views cannot be considered.

Dear Jamie,

I know that you truly believe that your writing is helping people and that the ends justify the means, but I just want you to know that the things you are doing –- the actions you have taken have hurt people. Your work has scared and manipulated parents into vaccinating their children, putting them and their health at risk, all in the name of safety and without fully informed consent. Children will die or become permanently disabled because of your blog post. I just want to make sure that you fully understand that.

Sincerely,
Mother to Vaccine-Injured child and advocate for hundreds of others

@kim:

Prove it. There is no evidence at all to support the claims of the antivaxxers. You are just making stuff up because you read some crank on the internet. I know it’s embarrassing to admit you got taken for a ride, but you’re an adult. Adults should be able to admit when they’re wrong.

Nat: So for you reasoning on “evidence and science” is based on a politician wanting to keep his family out of politics? Sad. You do know that one can establish safety of vaccines completely independently of what any politician says, do yo? Distrust in politicians is no evidence for or against the safety of a vaccine.

kim: I’m sorry for your child being sick, but we have to judge on evidence not fear or hearsay.

I should also add that the Hepatitis B vaccine was the one that tipped my son into encephalopathy resulting in autism. He is now 12 years old, and non-verbal. And he no longer has immunity from his infant series of Hep B shots. But the brain injury remains. He was born healthy in every way, with a future every bit as bright as your great grandsons future. But that all changed because of a vaccine.

Alice and Bob, with your interest in the polio vaccine, a great book to read is:
The Virus and the Vaccine:
http://www.amazon.com/Virus-Vaccine-Contaminated-Cancers-Government/dp/0312342721/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1275056395&sr=1-1
It gives a great history of the race for the polio vaccine, how it is made, all the key players, etc.
Caution: it might make Alice scream.

I think the pro-vaxxers have it right.
After all, they are right on so many other subjects and they follow the teachings and honesty of their government propaganda.
Make sure you trust the statements of your government, and especially those in whose interest it is to lie. The pediatricians who received bonuses for injecting hazardous waste substances into neonates, the propagandists who have undergraduate degrees in psychology and a history of placing infective pig virus polynucleotide sequences in their own mandated vaccines.
The people are waking up and the polls clearly indicate that they no longer believe the lies.
You are on the same side as the criminals and liars. You are in good company.
We all now know that cigarettes are good for you, asbestos is as well and vaccines, despite high levels of numerous toxins do not cause any side effects whatsoever, that these agents are simply as pure as water.
And medical error, which Dr. Gary Null has posited accounts for more than a million deaths a year (that’s right, more than any other disease and more than the total number of innocents murdered by acting on another series of lies in Iraq), is also untrue. And they fact that a number of ethical drugs have been associated with countless deaths should also be waived off as conspiracy. For you are the shills who know all and see and hear no evil, but speak volumes of bilge.
Just ask the government/corporate statisticians- and listen to them about the economy, and other information they provide. And by all means, do not look at why the unvaccinated children do not evidence autism and the fact that Japanese, who care about their children, refuse to even given vaccines to children before the age of two, because they must be wrong. The fact that they have the lowest infant mortality rate and yet they don’t vaccinate at all, should speak volumes to your global stupidity.
All that one can say is that your position is consistent with other criminals, liars and thieves and history will bear you out as the delusional medieval blood letters of a sinister cult that you truly are.
Good grief.

I didn’t read all the responses, just a few. If someone IS looking for a medical link in autism, outside of vaccines…Look to Pitocin! 80% of (US) mothers are given pit to augment their labors. That is a number that was relatively low a few decades ago, and now it’s almost part of every “procedural policy” a hospital or doc has in place. Docs have standing orders to start their patients on pit when they walk into L&D.

My personal feelings on autism are that there are SO MANY new things in our world (chemically, biologically, and otherwise) that we can’t blame ONE thing for the spike in Autism spectrum diagnoses.

The FDA has not approved Pitocin (which is a synthetic form of the body’s natural oxytocin) in use to augment labor since the 70s. Natural Oxytocin happens in ‘waves’ during labor & delivery. Pit is a constant slow drip. It can overstimulate the uterus and interrupt the oxytocin in the infant (which is believed to be where the autism link comes in). There is a study out there on it somewhere…but I do not remember who did it, or when it was exactly.

P.S. My kids are vaccinated…I did think about it a lot before they were born, but in the end I decided it was best if they were. Turns out I was right…my husband recently joined the Army. If we ever have to move overseas, my kids and I would have had to stay behind b/c they weren’t vaccinated, or give them all the vaccines at once! We just moved to a rural, Amish community. Guess who doesn’t vaccinate? My kids could actually be at risk now, had they not been vaccinated!

Whether or not someone is cheered on as hero does not make them right or not. Well designed Studies do.

In general, if you have any scientist actually doing carefully controlled study and you have one person engaging in unethical behavior like this:

“Dr Wakefield, 53, also “showed a callous disregard” for the suffering of children by taking blood samples from them at his son’s birthday party, and failed to declare a conflict of interest — that he had received £50,000 to carry out research on behalf of parents who suspected that MMR could lead to autism.”

Any conscientious parent should side with the multiplicity of scientists and not with one person who has shown to use unethical methods and be unapologetic about it.

Seriously? Drawing blood from kids at a birthday party for science? And that is your hero? But really it does not matter. The science matters.

It is not only relevant whether Wakefield’s work is junk, but what the whole body of evidence says. And with respect to establishing junk, the method very much counts. It’s not junk because people get vilified, it’s junk because of evaluation of the conduct and the methodology.

As for your son, I’m very sorry. I think we should push science towards helping autism and explore sensibly sound research on its causes, not scares and inferences of some politician’s actions and so forth.

As for the hero thing. There are many cases of people sticking to wrong convictions throughout their lives and blaming government and industry or other amorphous groups for all wrongs (let’s call this paranoia). Strength of conviction does not make one right.

I would NEVER put my kids this poison! http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm let others do it if they want.

The point about the pro-vaxxers is that they wish to unethically impose medical procedures known to cause damage in some children- by force. Thus, they want to impose largely untested vaccines on neonates who cannot give consent. It is unethical. It is criminal. It is a violation of the Nuremberg code. And, in some measure, because any number of children die from vaccination each year, it is mass murder by Russian Roulette. It is indefensible. It is also the reason why they must lie about the safety of the vaccines, because to tell the truth about the vaccines which cause death, autism, disabilities and related disorders is to admit that they injure children by force and are mass murderers. That is also why their research is so corrupt. For to be honest about this issue is to essentially lock themselves away in prison with no key with which to open the jail cell door.

The battle lines have been drawn between those who wish to impose unconstitutional, unethical, criminal, even murderous mandates and those who wish to give those who choose not to vaccinate the right not to have medical procedures forced/tested on them. The position of the pro-choicers is constitutional, ethical and lawful. It is the only acceptable position in this free society.

Under the non-fascist, pro-choice approach to vaccination, those who vaccinate (by choice)will presumably be protected against whatever illness they have (putatively) been vaccinated against and those who have not been vaccinated will not.

The arguments about herd immunity are really a canard for cows, who can’t pass judgement on the foolishness of the two-leggeds in control of them. It is nothing but a marketing scam and control device to try to gull the uninitiated into believing they should be forced to have poisons injected into them. Herd immunity is a control device, nothing more.

Notwithstanding those arguments and canards, if pediatricians made available those vaccines which parents legitimately felt addressed real concerns and threats (measles in a single dose, no MMR), certain others, rather than what is now tantamount to drug pushing an injurious protocol for profit, this issue would be far less contentious.

Good pharmaceutical science- show efficacy and safety and give people choice and this issue simply melts away.

Those who have no common sense or sense of decency may simply be trying to foster a marketing scam (for much of the protocol) rather than an appropriate wellness program. It’s certainly in their interest to do so.

Given the hysteria on the side of the anti-choice, unconstitutional, profascist, “vaccinate at all costs brigade”, it suggests that what they really fear is the loss of control and the discovery that maybe all of this is really just one giant fraud. Given that virtually all vaccines in the 20th century have been introduced after there was a substantial reduction in disease after the introduction of favorable public health practices (see Veira Scheibner studies), one wonders whether the vaccines, rather than the public health initiatives, had anything to do with a reduction in disease. Almost all modern day cases of polio come from the live atttenuated polio virus vaccine combined with an immunocompromised patient (think HIV+ in Africa). Of course, those in control of administering the vaccines believe that the vaccines work wonders, perhaps explaining the level of delusion and cultthink pervasively found in the population of pediatricians.

If it works- prove it works. If it’s safe- prove it’s safe. And always and forever, give people the right to choose.

It is the only sensible approach that can work in a free people.

MikeTheInfidel the IOM in 2001 02 found the vaccine Autism connection was biologically plausible. Surly you do believe
the IOM had sufficient evidence to make that ruling,the IOM was
told to pay little to no attention to the biological evidence and put all their confidence in the large population studies in the VSD.
The house appropriations committee,asked the NIH to look at the evidence the CDC had on
the Vaccine Autism issue. The
NIEHS was charged with the investigation of evaluating the
CDC’s evidence the NIEHS found the large populace studies were
en-effect useless and the others worse than useless in particular
the two Denmark studies (where
they took the Thimerosal mercury
out of their vaccines and the rates of Autism continued to rise) and it is coming very clear why, the lead researcher
that was in charge of the Denmark studies is known as a financial fraud in his own country of Denmark by people
who know him. He has allegedly absconded with almost 2 million dollars of CDC research money,
this is the headlines from Denmark he allegedly forged documents to obtain the money.
This all makes sense considering the email weeks before the IOM
meeting, the person from the CDC was saying we have searched frantically and cannot find anything here and the IOM meeting is within weeks. We will have to go else where to get us a study,and they did to Denmark
they chose Poul Thorsen he is on the lam from the authority’s in Denmark. He was found in the US the CDC has put him in charge of the new DSM5 you know the way
they have decided to come to the conclusion the epidemic is only
a statistical fluke,and the lead author an alleged fraud.
Back to the Dir. of the CDC, she was asked for a reply of the allegations from the congressional report her reply was CDC concurs. She then said but if you do give use more time we will do good quality studies,
so I guess she the CDC Dir. was admitting the studies she had maintained were of the best quality of well design and robust that were done over the past 6 years she was in charge were of bad quality? Remember the IOM used the large population studies and the Denmark studies to come to the conclusion that vaccines don’t cause Autism that and this little threat before the meetng
from Marie McCormick of the vaccine commission saying at the IOM meeting this; Walt wants you
to declare these are safe on a population basis, and by the way what Walt wants walt generally gets. MikeTheInfidel this is the Science that you are defending
ordering the IOM to comply.
In case you are wondering who Walt is;

Walter A. Orenstein, M.D., Director of the National Immunization Program (NIP), Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)

The Dir also said any further use of the VSD looking at vaccines (Thimerosal)environmental causing Autism would be MISLEADING.
You know that thing she the Dir. did for 6 long years while our children suffered in pain!

hitch They have no science, the panel head of the congressional report made it very clear “That leaves the CDC with very little to say, that vaccines and autism are not associated in any way.

Also the MSDS states that Thimerosal is accumulative in the body, and it targets the organs of the body in particular the brain and the lining around the brain. And the NIH CDC researcher Thomas Burbacher says that Thimerosal crosses the BBB easier than doe’s the fish mercury and once in the brain the Thimerosal turns into the inorganic form of mercury by 2.5 times that of the fish mercury.
Time for a quiz Do you know the
most damaging toxin to the mitochondria and the best and most efficient at depleting the glutathione needed to detox the body of heavy metals? Answer is
INORGANIC MERCURY one other thing to consider it is on the MSDS of Thimerosal under reactivity data do not mix thimerosal with Aluminum.

You see the two react violently together, with the production of heat. It is a well known fact there is a synergy effect of the two salts mixed that causes the toxic effect of the Mercury to multiple times ten. Time for another quiz do you know what is in children’s vaccines as a catalyst? Answer Aluminum
Now that is real science!

Hitch, you are useful idiot.
We are speaking specifically about vaccine choice. That is what the discussion in the first instance in all about. The manifestations of that choice, reflect on a political philosophical discussion about ethics, legality, criminality and political philosophy as that relates to the provision of medical care.
Just as you can’t argue with a liar (because there is no foundation upon which to base a factual analysis), you can’t argue facts with people who have gone to great lengths to corrupt research given their inherent biases and the need to point the finger away from those institutions which are both complicit of the offense and paying for the research.

If you are a student of history (your discourse bespeaks shill, decidedly not renaissance), you will immediately recognize that the allusion to tobacco science and asbestos science shows the same basic playbook as in the present vaccine case, the two differences being that the pharmaceutical/medical industry has learned from the experiences of the tobacco and asbestos industries and the pharmaceutical/medical industry is much more firmly embedded with government research institutions and grant money than were the tobacco and asbestos industries. So in tobacco and asbestos, eventually one could hope to see truth percolate out, if you could get government researchers to honestly deal with the issues.

I review a huge amount of medical research and frankly, I find the more recent medical research is rife with bias and is much less reliable than was the research in the 1980’s and 1990’s precisely because there was much less industry influence over the results of that research than there is today.

Let’s talk facts. You cannot cite one study which addresses both the safety and efficacy of vaccines that is consistent with good pharmaceutical practice. The studies are flawed because the way they test the vaccines is flawed. Oftentimes they seek to elicit a humoral response when a natural response to a disease vector may be cell mediated. Moreoever, they never do long term safety studies. The safety studies that are done are inadequate. That is unfortunate, but not dispositive, unless you are unethical and ignorant enough, unlike the Japanese, to force inject largely untested concoctions into neonates and then deny the common sense consequences of those criminally negligent actions.
People are walking away from the vaccines and creating a stink because the approach is unconstitutional and criminal, results in a large number of damaged children, the consequence of which is met by the standard government stonewalling and corruption with little basis in experimental detail to corroborate the circumstances in an unbiased, honest approach. People just don’t trust the vaccine manufacturers or the government agencies which are supposed to regulate them.
Given that lack of trust, the only politically viable approach to ending this issue is for those who caused the damage to back off, stop lying, fix the vaccines and try to restore some trust to the vaccine program. Instead, you just make the situation worse.
If you are a US citizen with more than two firing neurons you will recognize the economic and political crisis in which this country finds itself immersed. The reason for that is the corruption, ineptitude, criminality and failure to address issues forthrightly.
The way those of the criminal class have handled this issue is symptomatic of the greater concern.
Hopefully, you can manage to see through your foolishness and recognize that those who do not trust, do not do and do not follow.
Dictating the adage
“Who are you going to believe, me, or your own lying eyes” is not a competent public relations approach.
You should give it careful thought.

We do not have the freedom of information act rights in the IOM non governmental but someone there was very alarmed by what they were hearing and leaked out the minutes of the meeting this is what they were interested in
protecting the vaccine program at all cost in other words collateral was the cost of doing
business. Their press release was we find no causation and do not look at vaccines again, put your money where you will get more bang for you buck. To bad some one had a conscience there
the minutes released did not reflect that release in fact it was pretty much the opposite.
From the IOM meeting minutes;

“We’ve got a dragon by the tail here,” states a committee member in the
transcript. “At the end of the line, what we know is – and I agree –
that
the more negative that presentation [the report] is, the less likely
people
are to use vaccination, immunization, and we know what the results of
that
will be. We are kind of caught in a trap. How we work our way out of
the
trap, I think, is the charge.”

Are you caught in a trap if you found no causation?

Some scientist with a conscience
said the committee was ordered to find no causation it was in their contract between the IOM and the CDC.When byronchild asked CDC spokesperson Curtis Allen for a copy of the
contract that would detail the agreement between the IOM and the CDC,
Allen
stated that the contract would be available only in a heavily
“redacted” or
blacked-out format.

The IOM stated “no comment” to byronchild about the leaked transcript
or its
use in the pending civil court case.

You normally don’t redact something unless you are hiding something. The CDC has no rights redacting anything, in fact they are only supposed to conduct business that is above board that is in the public eye with complete transparency.

From the IOM minutes

Dr. Stratton: “We said this before you got here, and I think we said
this
yesterday, the point of no return, the line we will not cross in public
policy is to pull the vaccine, change the schedule. We could say it is
time
to revisit this but we will never recommend that level. Even
recommending
research is recommendations for policy. We wouldn’t say compensate, we
wouldn’t say pull the vaccine, we wouldn’t say stop the program.”

Notice they said we would not say compensate, you see the NVICP is totally corrupt agency and the vaccine commission is also AAP worse than USELESS
CDC an embarrassment to the American people. Why do you people think our children are so sick in the US, lets see the most vaccinated Nation and one of the sickest. The people who done this to the American children are sicker than the children with GREED and ARROGANCE they have no conscience or integrity
more dangerous than terroristNext we find Dr. McCormic saying they will never admit their mistake

Similarly, Dr. McCormick, at page 97 in discussing whether autism could
be
associated with vaccines, stated that “we are not ever going to come
down
that it is a true side effect,”

To you who defend this vermin
How can the CDC tell a woman to get a Thimerosal containing Flu vaccine, when it is on the MSDS of Thimerosal to never expose pregnant women to their product for it can cross the placenta
and go into the baby and cause mild to severe mental retardation? let see don’t eat the fish but do go down and get you a flu vaccine of something that will cross the BBB and the placenta easier than doe’s fish mercury. There is no common sense in that behavior, anyone
who defends this is being paid by pharma or the CDC to do so.

How do you sleep at night?

May the cries of these little children bore into your head, and do know that you will be held just as responsible as the ones that committed the crime against American children.

One dad was so distraught about where his 22 yr old was going
spend the rest of his life, since they were not able to take care of him anymore. He chose a horrible way out of this CDC Vaccine educed hell called Autism, he shot the child and then turned the gun on his self.
I don’t expect any of you to give a damn, you see you would have to have a conscience to
do that. And as the bible says yours is seared as with a hot iron.

kim, read the following paper cover to cover. Then if you doubt any of the cited sources read those.

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/596476

This is a science paper but it is quite readable when you get used to the big words.

Let me just explain two words. Causal and coincidental.

Causal means that something happens because of something before it in time and that prior event was needed to make it happen. This is a link and relation.

Coincidental means that something happened temporally after another event but was not caused by it.

For example I may be watching TV and have a heart attack. The show that played just before I had my heart attack is likely coincidental. It happened before but did not cause my heart attack.

Scientific studies have methods to show causal vs coincidental and you will read about that in the paper.

To understand how one can get very robust effects, if whole countries switch from Thimerosal to Thimerosal-free that is actually affecting a large pool. In science we call this an AB, where condition A is followed by condition B. If there is a causation one expects things to follow that step. I.e. if Thimerosal had an influence on autism rates, removal of it in a large group of people should help, right? Studies of exactly these steps in Denmark and the US showed that no such step in an AB condition is observed, hence we cannot see the causation that we should.

The main thing is that it is quite easy to study the effect of Thimerosal. In some countries vaccinations were suspended. In some countries a mix of Thimerosal-free vaccines were used.

If Thimerosal is responsible the population who got it should show higher incidences of autism. Studies show no such effect.

In fact mercury dosage in vaccines used to be much higher than before, but autism only started to rise after the mercury dosage had already been dropped.

Also let me give you this source:

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/ucm096228.htm

Specifically check out the table and note, how contemporary children’s vaccines simply do neither have mercury nor Thimerosal in it. This changes goes back to 2001 after a recommendation in 1999.

More importantly note how the FDA monitors and adjusts for safety and note how many sources are considered to make sure things are safe.

Joe, you are a loon. The IOM report is open, noone can influence it because everybody can follow the line of argument. It’s written down, all open and public. It’s not like a closed door decision or anything. You show no clue how a panel even works, it’s not like 2-3 people can just decide over the head of the rest of them. Basically you spew a rather ill-formed conspiracy theory.

FOIA emails from the so caring FDA and the CDC.

Were afraid the public will perceive us asleep at the switch for decades, for allowing this dangerous compound to remain in the vaccines.

And it’s no longer going to wash that there is no evidence of a risk.

This was not rocket science this was 9th grade math.

He was referring to the facts, the accumulative doses were adding up to neurological damage
and according to the MSDS sheet mercury poisoning. And that the
FDA could not do the simple math
to calculate the emanate damage.
That was being done to the American children.

How could the FDA approve a preservative with out knowing
how much mercury it contains,
what else is lurking that we don’t know about.

The best for last,
Maybe we should come clean with the people. It appears that she had a conscience.

The AAP, when they first found
the mistake had happened.

This is accumulative in the body we must find the best chelating agent and get with it.

You see that was before the AAP went to the Simpson wood meeting
and the main Dr. there said with the current research, were all in a bad position from the stand point of defending any lawsuits
and he said he was concerned.

He also said you would not be able to find a scientist with any integrity who would say with the current studies,that this is not happening to the children. It seems he under estimated the deep seeded corruption in the research academia.

Joe, as said you are a loon.

Yes the quote is in there but you quote out of context.

Like any good conspiracy theorist you pick a few lines out of context and construct a conspiracy, ignoring evidence to the contrary.

I encourage people to read the whole minutes and you will learn about review process, concern for parents, how to deal with hyper-vigilant media and how to communicate complex medical topics to lay people without scaring them.

Joe, how about you quote to us the opening statement of the IOM minutes for context?

Oh geez…

My way is still better then 50 million dead, Joe. I’m not the one lying or fear mongering, you can look up the stats on any website you like. Small pox is very real, and very well documented.

You are trying to justify the deaths of tens of millions because you are afraid of possible side effects from drugs that work. You don’t even have any solid evidence of these side effects, just the possibility that they might exist. All the while ignoring the evidence that billions of doses of these vaccinations have been administered with out any huge epidemic of disabled.

As I said before, and you apparently have no way to refute, even if you are right, and a small percentage of the children given these vaccinations do have some serious side effects beyond those that we know, then it is still a small price to pay for saving tens of millions of lives, not to mention the hundreds of millions more that would be crippled by these diseases.

Joe, the more you write the less coherent you become. I don’t care what you believe that IACC, CDC, MPAA, or the Count on Sesame Street said in some secrete emails that the voices in your head leaked to you. Vaccinations have substantially improved the quality of life for billions of people, and you would have us turn our backs on that. I think that sane and intelligent people are going to simply ignore your blithering stupidty, and I can take comfort in that.

I am a parent and a nurse. My son suffered terrible bowel issues post MMR. I continued to vaccinate and he suffered even more damage. What you did Jamie was not brave it was cowardly. Brave would have been to sit down and speak to him face to face and ask questions not pretend to be a supporter and slip him a note. Buy the Book Callous Disregard. You may change your opnion of this amazing man.

Donna Carver,

I am a parent and a nurse. My son suffered terrible bowel issues post MMR. I continued to vaccinate and he suffered even more damage.

More anecdotes! I’m convinced. Being a nurse definitely makes you qualified to assess the cause of your child’s illness. Since it happened after a vaccine it must have been the vaccine, because correlation equals causation. You’re so clever. Parents know best, they’re never stupid or ignorant, they never foolishly believe things.

Joe, in all that incoherent street-corner rambling, was there any point?

Let me answer for you: No. Go back to YouTube and your paranoia videos. Leave the discussion to the people whose brains aren’t addled with booze, hard drugs, and household cleaners.

There is a really useful documentary here, with I think fair presentation of all sides.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/vaccines/view/

You quote all this science, but we know that recently it’s been proven that academia most is in the pockets of big pharma and the CDC. Peer review means nothing anymore. Elsevier created 5 fake journals for merck. Merck had a hit list for Dr.’s who spoke against their product vioxx in Australia. In their words (we may have to seek them out and destroy them where they live). I really hope they are talking about destroying creditability,but who knows what these sick bastarxs are capable
of. They talked about punishing
academia for not doing what they want,no conspiracy though just bad behavior. Dig your head out of the sand, or where ever it is
and wake up to reality. Schill

Hi There,
my son is autistic and he’s vaccinated, but his autism wasn’t caused by MMR, even though he started showing disturbing behaviours around 16-18 months, almost overnight, having been a normal baby. How do I know it wasn’t the MMR? Because Wakefield’s lies scared me out of giving it to my son MMR until he was 4 years old. By then, he was clearly autistic and had been diagnosed since 20 months old.

All of my friend’s autistic children showed the same pattern, regardless of when they had the MMR: their autism suddenly became apparent around 15-20 months, around the time typical children start developing social behaviour. It’s not MMR, it’s atypical autistic development!

Incidentally, I said my son was autistic. He is not a tragedy, he is not sick, he is not “trapped within his autistic world”, he’s just different and I wouldn’t want him any other way, even if he is hard work.

Jamie thank you for your effort and tremendous spirit.

I have been trying in vain for a long time to start a viral campaign which tries to get Oprah to see the light and then perform an act of contrition before she goes off the air. She is much worse then Andrew Wakefeild or Jenny McCarthy because I believe in my heart she knows the truth and sadly chooses to ignore it in an effort to continue her megalomaniacal quest to rule the world. LOL!

Actually one of her key staffers is a neighbor of mine and the impression I get is that most of her “people” are to terrified to confront her about anything. How sad is that?

Great post Jamie,
you give a very good account of your day at the rally. Thanks for efforts and representation for rational thinking and promotion of science-based research. I believe it is especially brave as it seems that no matter how many of the anti-vax claims get dis-proven the followers of the campaign just try to find another. Sometimes it can feel like it doesn’t matter how much evidence, research or testimonials go against the belief that vaccines are dangerous they will never give up their stance. It is almost religious for some I have met. Those individuals I have listened to have me under the impression that their children will be going to school claiming not that “the dog ate my homework” but that “BIG PHARMA did it!” Sad times when parents trust google or Jenny McCarthy more than their doctor or trained healthcare providers.

Just last week http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/scimedemail/la-me-0527-whooping-cough-20100527,0,4139013.story

Also, you didn’t see all the people dancing? There was even a mother who was standing up holding and dancing with her infant.

And Karyn, you aren’t Karyn from Karyn’s Raw Cafe in Chicago, are you?

Sylvia,

Many parents who ask are assured that the shot their child is getting is thimerosal free, but when the parent insists on seeing the package insert, there it is.

True fact, I heard it at a bar. Why are these non-existent nurses lying to us? In a recent survey 88% of nurses said that they were misled about the ingredients of vaccines. In response a health official said “muahahahaahahaha”, Many doctors insist on seeing the package insert, most claimed that one ingredient, called soylent green, was definitely people.

And more sensationalist presentations of things, not to discuss one case but to scare people about vaccines in general.

To Sylvia: It is irrelevant that flu shots contain thimerosal, because there is absolutely no evidence, after many studies that thimerosal is dangerous. Again read the papers linked above.

Government agencies unfortunately have fed the paranoia in 2001 by mostly removing thimerosal, to avoid a possible link that already at that point was highly dubious. But now this has entered into the conspiracy theory. “Oh, why is it no longer used in children vaccines if it is harmless?” Well, sad news is that as best we know it is harmless. But this is exactly how conspiracy theories work.

Not all facts are considered. Only those facts that reinforce a set belief. The fact that many studies showed absolutely no link of thimerosal or other mercury traces in vaccinations to health concerns is hidden, while the hence irrelevant but true fact that one can not get 100% guarantee to a thimerosal-free flu shot is elevated to something deeply relevant, when it is not relevant at all. Those flu shots, as far as thimerosal go, are fine. Irregardless of whether 0% 10% or 90% of them have it.

Jamie, You’re an excellent example of a brainwashed imbecile. Morons like you should keep writing so we can understand the depth of stupidity amongst the brain dead public.

Karyn, I was at the rally, and the mothers and children were dancing in front on me during Vaccine Gestapo.

Jamie,
Thanks for posting the link. But Wakefield is not even mentioned, nor is it clear in this article whether or not these babies received any of their other vaccinations. I fail to see what this very sad story has to do with Andrew Wakefield. I’m sure you will dig something up, though! And BTW, I do not own a business in Chicago.

I was at the rally Jamie Bernstien described. How many of you, other than Jamie, were?

Forget Autism for a second…(hard for us parents of vaccine injured children but..)

I watched and listened to a mother talk about how her perfectly normal 14 yr old daughter now eats and breathes through tubes after an adverse Gardasil vaccine reaction. How the hospital staff accused her (the daughter) of taking drugs and lying about having seizures and not being able to eat/breathe. Really…lying about having a seizure?? That’s a good trick.

I watched and listened to a member of the military as he told about watching his best friend die after an adverse vaccine reaction. If you’re in the military, you don’t get a right to choose…it’s part of the job.

Stop accusing the victims here! You can’t deny that some people have adverse reactions. It’s undeniable…period. The vaccine manufacturers will admit it…why can’t you people? Why do you think they have those LONNNGGG inserts listing side effects? I have to laugh now when watching drug adds on TV when the speed talkers list the many side effects, many of which are worse than the symptoms your taking the drug for.

All we want is the choice of what we inject into our bodies and our children’s bodies. Seems like more of a fundamental right than freedom of speech which I wish some of you didn’t have after reading your dribble. You don’t know until you’ve walked in our shoes. I’d give you 1 week before you start thinking the same way we do. I hope it doesn’t happen to you…but chances are it will effect you or your child or your children’s children within your lifetime.

If Jamie really wanted to do something…she should have stood up for what she truely believes in and asked Dr. Wakefield her questions face to face vs. lying to him about being a fan, getting a pic w/him and then slipping him a little note (cute…NOT) and then running away.

Great job Jamie…you should be very proud. Again…NOT!!

@Broken Link: Thanks! His facebook page is immensely entertaining! I love that my little picture is apparently enough two warrant talking about through two entire shows. Not to mention all the lovely names he calls me. I’ll be watching this guy closely from now on, if only for the humour.

We are living organisms and to put a virus in your body not knowing the outcome is very dangerous. This organism is soooooo complicated that nobody has figured it out yet. Every immune system is different and sometimes it welcomes the virus and then adapts. The most I put in my body is aspirin and that is rare. The science is inconclusive. Maybe the vaccines your parents got messed up their DNA and the when they had Children It caused their childrens autism

There isn’t a person on this planet that knows what goes on in The human body. GARBAGE IN GARBAGE OUT. Is that simple enough for you? Why eat healthy then?

Louise,

There was a USAF captain who recorded post-vaccination illnesses on three different AFBs. There was a Gardasil mom whose 14 yo daughter now breathes and eats through tubes after receiving her Gardasil vaccine.

Anecdotes… theyll do as evidence when you’re stupid and ignorant.

…a history professor from Univ of IL at Chicago…

History professors… when you’re out of doctors of medicine.

Check every single vaccine package insert and see what it says: http://www.immunize.org/fda/. Never been tested for carcinogenic, mutagenic potential or impairment of fertility.

What about food, building materials, other drugs, and almost everything else? I see… it’s only a problem when you’re irrationally afraid of something.

This rally was not about existing science. We want to see more science. You should want to see more science.

Read the comments from the crazies here… read Natural News or Age of Autism. What do you and these people need research for? You’ve got anecdotes and conspiracy theories!

I think that’s 2 more than would be extinct if we followed your advice. Polio isn’t actually extinct, thanks to deranged people torpedoing it.

This is and never should be about one person. Wakefield’s work is one of a whole set of works. But it just takes people without perspective to throw their trust behind one person rather than behind the actual evidence, that is quite independent of the persons involved.

If you are intelligent you would actually read all the sources I linked and argue on matters of actual merit, not on bizzare emotional appeals.

You are spreading bull.

Vaccine safety is a long-standing topic:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccine_Monitoring/history.html

and not invented by Wakefield. Many people are concerned, and actually honest in their methods, about vaccine safety.

There are plenty of credible studies, with proper controls and clear outcomes.

And there is proper documentation just exactly why Wakefield’s article got retracted by Lancet and why he got stripped from his licence in the UK.

Care to actually be honest and cite this?

Here is how Deer reported the findings before the GMC came to its conclusions:

“However, our investigation, confirmed by evidence presented to the General Medical Council (GMC), reveals that: In most of the 12 cases, the children’s ailments as described in The Lancet were different from their hospital and GP records. Although the research paper claimed that problems came on within days of the jab, in only one case did medical records suggest this was true, and in many of the cases medical concerns had been raised before the children were vaccinated. Hospital pathologists, looking for inflammatory bowel disease, reported in the majority of cases that the gut was normal. This was then reviewed and the Lancet paper showed them as abnormal.”

The details of the GMC findings discussing the case of discrepancies with respect to the children in the Lancet study can to be found here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25983372/FACTS-WWSM-280110-Final-Complete-Corrected

The Lancet fully retracted the paper hence.

Care to say that Wakefield did sue Deer over his reporting, but dropped it after all documents were disclosed and paid Deer’s legal fees?

Deer incidentally continuing to be harassed by deranged group of vaccination opponents?

But leave all this aside. Wakefield is not the only person in the field. Read all the studies and talk about them. But you guys just put blinders on, ignore evidence you dislike and elevate discredited claims into truisms and its promoters into hero status.

But let’s bring this back to what matters:

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/596476

Review article going through all relevant work since the 98 Lancet study on the vaccine/autism link. No link if confirmed, instead all evidence shows an absence of such link.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0003140

Horning et al detailed study trying to reproduce the Lancet 98 study. They conclude “This study provides strong evidence against association of autism with persistent MV RNA in the GI tract or MMR exposure.” hence finding strong evidence against a link.

Sensible people look at all evidence and report truthfully. As an example take Professor Hasley of John Hopkins University University Institute for Vaccine Safety. After the Lancet study by Wakefield came out, he pressured the CDC for more studies. However he came around when evidence showed that indeed there was no link. Hasley has since promoted MMR vaccinations, as can be seen in this issue of the Parents magazine:

http://www.parents.com/baby/health/vaccinations/parents-report-vaccine-update-2007/?page=3

That’s the difference between honestly concerned and looking for evidence, and causing paranoia against evidence.

Further sources on vaccine safety:

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/ucm096228.htm\
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/pink/def_pink_full.htm
http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/

hugh,

well in 1964 my sister got her shots befor 1st grade and 2 weeks later she had brain damage.

Anecdotes, behind almost all irrational fear of vaccines. In related news, correlation may indeed not equal causation. Researchers have found that when something happens two weeks after another event, the two events may be unrelated.

Don’t worry we will figure it out. Dr wakefield will continue doing research. 1 in 90 has autism. look at the number of shots they give. that doesn’t bother you? would you overwhelm your system with drugs or alchohol and not get a reaction. These are living virus that are being injected and you expect the body to handle that? your freakin brain doesn’t stop physically growing till your 25 and these doctors expect the immune system to be fully developed at 6 months. You think I’m a Kook? LOLOLOLOLOL,

Your research techniques are wrong. Your GOD is the almighty dollar just like Offit.

If you do a test and you don’t find the cause whose fault is that? The patients? You don’t sound like a friendly atheist. You sound like an angry atheist.

The tests don’t matter to me anymore. the fact is mmr can cause brain damage and it caused my sisters. she was sitting in class when the teacher noticed something was wrong.vaccines are not 100% safe and I would like to see vaccines that are. google side effects of the mmr vaccine. Something is happening in these childrens brains and I think its man made. We will get the right researchers to solve it.I don’t think we will know until you can positively trace the vaccine and watch the immune system destroy it.

Ugh! The flagrant need to be right in the post and comments is annoying. Too many people credit science as last word. Clearly something is wrong, if it’s not vaccines then its the cocktail. If its not the cocktail then its the mother diet while pregnant. If it’s not the mother diet while pregnant then … well you get it. Quit finding fault in those trying to identify the cause and start being part of the cure!

Ugh, I hope you showered after he touched you.