Baptists Kidnap 33 Haitian Children in the Name of God

Wow, that is really sad.

I am dumbfounded…

Stealing children is just terrible. Yes indeed, if you want to help orphan children you go through channels and do it properly. There’s no excuse I can see for not doing that.

“When God calls you to a certain mission and a specific action he’s not going to let it fail.”

/ELWOOD BLUES/

They’re not gonna catch us. We’re on a mission from God.

I think we all know how that eventually worked out. 😉

I’ve been watching this story and the problem seems not to be one of just carelessness about seeing if the children were actually orphans or forgetting to get proper permission. My impression is one of complete arrogance; of people so convinced they were doing God’s work that they couldn’t even conceive of the idea that they might be doing anything wrong or that not everyone would see it their way.

As Laura Silsby, the group’s leader, said after her arrest, “I was going to come back and do the paperwork.”

Right, Laura. God wanted it done that way.

I hope they get put in jail. This is child trafficking and as an adoptive parent of a child born in another country it angers me to no end that these people would dare to try to separate these children from their biological families.

To Medussa,

I believe in Haiti many children in orphanages don’t lack parents or other relatives but they are there because the relatives lack at that time the ability to feed them properly and better the orphanage for a time than starving. The relatives probably hope to reclaim them when they can.

Haiti also had a major problem even before the quake of children being adopted without their parents’ consent.

But this is not the first time christians have actively stolen children they consider to have been born into demonic families.

Starting right here at home with native american children taken to be educated by ‘civilized’, christian groups. Ditto Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

And anywhere in the last 20 years that there’s been a disaster in a country with mainly brown, non-christian populations, charges have been made of child stealing. This just happens to be the first group that’s been caught.

“When God calls you to a certain mission and a specific action he’s not going to let it fail,” [father of a detainee, Mel Coulter]”

>_> so…if that’s the case…why are there 10 of the Baptists sitting in jail and being charged with crimes…wouldn’t their god have prevented them from being found out or something so they could complete their so called “mission”?

hmm well to be fair the whole ‘i was just a follower’ wouldnt be a valid exuse, hasnt been since the nuremberg trials both in military action and civil actions, thats basicly remained unchanged more or less, that said basing it on our own news here, it seems as if there wasnt any malicious intent (i mean as if they were the other kind of child trafficers) but they did openly lie about having permission at the border which aint exactly gonna help them wat ever happened to ‘thou shalt not lie’ heh ahh wait i forgot about that, the rules only apply to other people right?

I have to agree with what Hugh Kramer says – this problem stems not from a malicious intent to kidnap children, but from “pure arrogance.” However, part of their intent was certainly to convert these children – and while they don’t consider that malicious, I do.

It’s been interesting watching my family on Facebook and the blogosphere as they prepared for this trip (see my previous comment for my relationship with 3 of these 10 individuals.) Lots of posts about “Yeah, things in Haiti are awful, but here’s this one example of someone coming to the Lord, which makes it all okay…”

My dad wrote a blog post yesterday about his 3 nephews, asking for his readers’ prayers as they go before a judge today. His post begins, “I suppose it’s inevitable that, in certain circumstances, right actions lead to painful consequences.” It took me many years (even after losing my faith) to be able to clearly see the arrogance portrayed in statements like this, which my Southern Baptist pastor father has been making my whole life. How, as he has been watching the news, can he still call these actions “right”? But, of course, to doubt it would put him on a slippery slope, since God told my cousins to go on this trip…

@ beckiwithani
I’m glad you got to the point where you ‘saw the light’, but I’m sorry to say, I really hate your cousins. This kind of thing makes me very angry and spiteful. I can get along with people of faith until this do shit like this…REAL harm.

@Lagunatic I don’t find hate to be particularly helpful when dealing with True Believers (just encourages them to feel persecuted), but I know where you are coming from. I still haven’t quite sorted out the mixture of anger, horror, shame, and worry that has been roiling inside me since I woke up to this news yesterday morning.

If I didn’t know these people personally (and their families, temporarily (?) abandoned to this reckless endeavor), my only real emotion would just be royally pissed off. But I do love my family, even when angered by them … so there’s a lot of anxiety mixed into this situation for me. It’s a weird cognitive dissonance.

@Jenny Bliss, that surprises me… I thought in cases such as medical neglect, there was some legal work done to see whether the parents were equally culpable, or if one was the instigator and the other just failed to stop it. There are differing levels of jail time for sex abuse and the partner who just didn’t stop it. There should be a legal understanding of the very personal dynamics of an overbearing and arrogant middle aged mother and her barely legal-adult child, who she’s brainwashed for her entire childhood. If there *isn’t* such a legal distinction, our laws are incredibly unfair.

I also wonder if their fundraisers and supporters in the states should also be held culpable to some extent… raising money for terrorism is a crime, wouldn’t raising money for kidnapping also be?

lol at Jeff, tying these self righteous fundis. with Fox news

@Ted, thank you. I really appreciate your words.

beckiwithani, I’m sorry for what you’re going through. It’s hard to know what to think when family does stupid stuff that gets them in trouble like this.

As to the situation – for everything I’ve read so far it doesn’t sound malicious, just stupid and, yes, arrogant. Which doesn’t mean I think they should be let go scot-free, but I don’t think life in prison is the answer either.

And that picture – that girl in blue is 18? Wow. She looks so much younger to me. Poor kid.

This is getting to be a scary trend.

I don’t see anything benevolent about these actions at all. The idea that kids have to be saved from their Catholic or voodoo practicing parents is horrendous.

A letter published in Time calls for the US to step in and re-culture Haiti because otherwise they will continue to believe in voodoo and magic. It’s the same sort of arrogance there.

Since most of the folks involved in this are from right here in Idaho, it’s all over the news – especially the local news. My wife (not originally from Idaho, or the US for that matter) sits in astonishment at hearing what happened as the story unfolds. She keeps saying “What the hell were they thinking?! You can’t just go to another country and start funneling children across international borders whenever you want!”. I took care to explain to her that there were two prevalent factors involved here:

1. Gawd told them to do it. Therefor, they are right (in their own minds) no matter what some silly Haitian authority claims.

2. They are (comparatively) rich white folk saving po’ black folk from themselves. If rich white folk don’t save them, who will?

Arrogant first world religious folks FTL. I certainly don’t wish them any ill will, but I hope they understand what they did was wrong, and pay appropriately for it.

The whole thing gives me the creeps. They should be ashamed of themselves, re-traumatizing those kids for their own selfish gain. Opportunistic vultures.

Intent does not even matter. What if these were your children? My children? We only know that these people broke laws and they must be held accountable for their actions. How dare anyone kidnap someone’s child. That is a horrific crime. I do hope the 18 year old is evaluated regarding her culpability. Attempted kidnapping is a serious crime. If I were the judge I would put an end to this “God’s work” defense in a NY minute.

You kinda know Christian missionaries are child stealing creeps when 20/20 does a series on affluent baby boomers that is mostly geared towards Christian ideals and ruminates on a future scenario that involves large families where most of the kids in the future household are for someone else without giving a reason on why a future household would become that way.

I, like Becki, lived through years of fundie xtianity. It took years to pull myself out. It was a world all unto itself, which viewed any opposing viewpoints as irrelevant at best and downright satanic at worst. Which is to say: if anyone disagreed with the pastor, s/he was called out, and often forced to have ‘demons driven’ from them. I was told I had many such demons, which were responsible for everything from laughing to enjoying jazz. (I’m not making this up.) Any closed system (i.e. fundie xtianity) grows stagnant. When all one knows is the rotten air one breathes, one can commit any number of atrocities and they will look rational, even ‘godly.’ Becki, congratulations on getting out.

Your article title is deliberately misleading. Shame on you. I read your articles from time to time and you chose to write the title to be shocking. This was done with ill intent and is in poor taste. The title and many of the comments show the hatred and fear so many of you have of believers. (Please do not bother responding on how your hatred is justified. I am a christian and I too have serious problems with certain religions, beliefs, people and sects so I do understand and agree with some of the fear and hatred. Some of your more simple commenters should take care to direct their animosity against the beliefs, actions and philosophies not against the individuals.)

You equate them with what the Mennonites did. You know better than that but you are being evil. I do not believe that you believe these people went there to kidnap children. The Mennonites were well aware of the law being broke.

One of your commenters said they were arrogant and by-passed the paper work. If that were true I would agree with him and you but that does not seem to be the case. Not ALL of them were responsible for the paperwork. Most were likely in the dark about the technicalities and were there to help how the could. it is apparent to me that the problem lies with Laura Silsby, she did not file or receive the proper documentation. If the others were unaware of this they are not culpable.

@ beckiwithani, thank you for adding some sensibility to this article.

@kate, Intent is the difference between manslaughter and murder. Intent matters.

Of course these fine people were doing the Lord’s work! I think they were just following rules set down by the Almighty Himself:
Leviticus 25:44-46

Might as well get em young & get more use & value!

@david,
Let me get this straight: An insular group of religious zealots from Idaho arrives in earthquake-ravaged Haiti on Thursday, rounds up a bunch of kids (allegedly orphans, but with sparse documentation) and gets arrested trying to cart them across a national boundary the next day.

What part of “Baptists Kidnap 33 Haitian Children in the Name of God” is inaccurate or sensationalist? The group is admittedly Baptist and claims to be told by God to do what they’re doing. They tried moving 33 Haitian children across a national border with no paperwork. I expect it would take more than 48 hours to get permission to move 33 unrelated children across state lines in the US in non-disaster conditions – as foreign nationals in a poor nation operating under martial law due to disaster conditions, they expected faster approval?

So unless they are skull-implodingly stupid, I can only conclude they were counting on the chaos in Haiti to let them avoid whatever proper channels & protections exist for moving these kids out of the country. So yes, “kidnap” sounds very much like the proper word to use for what they were doing. The words “traffic” or “smuggle” might work just as well.

Why the rush? Why not work with an existing aid agency? Surely there are plenty of existing in-country orphanages the kids could be placed with. Granted, those orphanages are probably Catholic-run given the history of Haiti as a French colony and the Baptist view of Catholics is well known. But surely they could have placed the kids in an in-country orphanage or at least kept them cared for in-country while they made arrangements for a legal movement out of the country.

So no, David, this is not sensationalized believer-bashing. A bunch of extremely stupid or moderately evil people tried absconding with a bunch of kids for whatever reason and got busted. Their religion is irrelevant aside from providing motivation and a thin excuse for unbelievably bad behavior. That many many others have engaged in similar bad behaviors and have similarly used this religion in the same way – as motivation and weak justification – it is completely reasonable to ask if there’s something about this religion that drives otherwise normal people into taking incredibly stupid or evil actions.

The world is meaningless, there is no God or gods, there are no morals, the universe is not moving inexorably towards any higher purpose. All meaning is man-made, so make your own, and make it well. Do not treat life as a way to pass the time until you die.
Do not try to “find yourself”, you must make yourself. Choose what you want to find meaningful and live, create, love, hate, cry, destroy, fight and die for it. Do not let your life and your values and you actions slip easily into any mold, other that that which you create for yourself, and say with conviction, “This is who I make myself”.
Do not give in to hope. Remember that nothing you do has any significance beyond that with which imbue it. Whatever you do, do it for its own sake. When the universe looks on with indifference, laugh, and shout back, “Fuck You!”. Remember that to fight meaninglessness is futile, but fight anyway, in spite of and because of its futility.
The world may be empty of meaning, but it is a blank canvas on which to paint meanings of your own. Live deliberately. You are free.

Let the bastards stay in jail and say that they are being rescued from their dementia.

The Jesus thing to do; my arse.

If these idiots were doing God’s work, then it’s even more serious than I thought. God’s work, according to the “Bible”, was to let his own son get nailed to the cross, then call the rest of us sinners. Oh really, Great Invisible Master? What a bunch of crapola. I can’t believe how many people are still buying into it all. Whenever I think of the Bible (and yes, I read it years ago to educate myself) I am reminded of the age-old classic book, The Emperor’s New Clothes….If you recall, he was told that only “fools” could not see his new finery, but when the whole town came out and laughed their collective heineys off, he started to wonder….then if memory serves me well, he came home and looked in the mirror and couldn’t see them either!!! What a great story that is. I truly wish that religion will someday be seen for what it is….a fairytale so removed from reality, and so full of death, betrayal, and nonsense, It’s hard to imagine that anyone with a brain can believe it as fact. The “immaculate conception?” Hello!!!I would like to mention on more important detail in this child kidnapping scenario. The “troubled teen industry in this country is the secondest largest growing and money making industry in the nation, our nation” I am a freelance journalist who has been researching this topic for several years. The Dominican Republic is home of thousands of these “boot camps” for teens and young children. Most all of them are run by Christians, Baptists, and are quite lucrative. The parents of these so-called unruly kids send them off to these countries, and take out life insurance policies on them beforehand. Nobody knows just how many of these kids have died…it is truly the silent Halocaust. Tranquility Bay in Jamaica is particularly gruesome. Kids are locked in closets, tortured, sexually abused and turned into robots, trained to turn on each other and receive special treatment for doing so. Thousands of these kids have committed suicide or been killed at the hands of Jamaicans, Dominicans, who are just happy to have a job of anykind. The so-called orphanage that these kids were going to was a “hotel” in DR. That is exactly how Tranquility Bay started, in an old abandoned hotel. WWASP is the organization which started this horror. It stands for World Wide Association of Specialty Progams. Do some research on the web and you’ll start to understand what this is really about. It is definitely child trafficking, brainwashing, abduction and sale of children, not to mention money made from insurance policies taken out after adoption. If you think this sounds crazy, think again. It’s a huge industry that many people know about..but feel powerless to stop. Thanks for letting me have my say.

I heard about this event yesterday and began to research it today. As I read all the posts before mine, I pictured how easy it us for those of us posting here to vent about our feelings and complain about what is going on in the world around us when most of us could care less about leaving our comfortable lives here in the US or where ever you reside and actually going to help those in need in Haiti. I understand that if many of you had the opportunity to go I would imagine that you wouldn’t. Ask yourself right now that if you were given the opportunity to go to Haiti to help, would you? Many of you could obviously not go because of family and other things that would hold you back. Sure, I’ll admit it was easy for me to get upset and shake my head at those “kidnappers.” However, if they really are kidnappers than they definitely deserve to face the punishment that the government will place on them. However, if these 10 people had the documents needed and something perhaps fell through with the Haitian gov. or paperwork was misplaced, then I would imagine that many people would need to apologize for the statements made.
I feel that the only reason this story has received so much hype is mainly the word “Baptist” in the headline. This made me think more about it (I just took out the word Baptist & inserted it with “people” & deleted any affiliation of church groups/words.:

Ten “people” detained trying to take 33 children out of earthquake-shattered Haiti without government permission say they were just trying to do the right thing, applying principles to save Haitian children.

…

Prime Minister Max Bellerive on Sunday told The Associated Press that the group was arrested and is under judicial investigation “because it is illegal trafficking of children and we won’t accept that.”
…
The group’s own mission statement said it planned to spend only hours in the devastated capital, quickly identifying children without immediate families and busing them to a rented hotel in the Dominican Republic without bothering to get permission from the Haitian government.
…
“One (8-year-old) girl was crying, and saying, ‘I am not an orphan. I still have my parents.’ And she thought she was going on a summer camp or a boarding school or something like that,”

It’s obvious that the media needed to hype this with religion to get ratings/attention. The truth will come out and I am definitely looking forward to seeing what will happen. Please comment on what you think about this post. I have so much more to say but I’ll leave room for others. Thank you.
-S.R. (Follower of Christ)

I hope the US government minds it’s business for ONCE!