Awkward Holiday Present

I feel the same way too…for Christmas my aunt who I am really close to gave me the book The Case for Christ. I guess it’s about some journalism’s journey from atheism to Christianity. I promised myself I would get through it as well. I am pretty far in it and it’s so biased having the Bible back up the Bible and it’s very anecdotal. I am still waiting for some actual “evidence” for this case for Christ. I also need the strength to finish this book as well!!!!…

I am reading Chuck Colson’s book The Faith for my mother, it is the same. It is supposed to be about Christianity but instead all I have read so far is straw man, ad hom, and biased history against “anti-theist”, he refuses to call atheists atheists.

Yeah. I don’t have the time to read a lot of things that I actually want or need to read, let alone more Christian propaganda. The response something like that is likely to get from me is to fester on the shelf.

Or maybe get sold at a second-hand shop, or return it to the store, or something like that. Might as well get some value out of it.

lol that’s a fun gift to get! And at very least it gives you the opportunity to have a dialogue with a believing friend. I’ve been wanting to read one of those popular Christian books, but I’m too embarrassed to be seen taking one out from the library, and I don’t want to pay for one.

It’s a way better gift than what I got from my Gramma…maybe in response to my atheistic letters to the editor, she made a donation in my honour to the Catholic Missions of Canada…I couldn’t even pretend to be happy about that one. Normally she buys a goat for a village in Africa, but not this year…I read what they do on their website quickly and it appears that all they do is promote religious education and rebuild Churches UGH!

I suspect that the target audience for these books is not nonbelievers at all, but rather fellow Christians who want to have their beliefs reinforced.

This is exactly the case. Books of apologetics are not for the non-believer – they’re for the believer who is in the process of questioning his or her faith. Some believers think that apologetics books are good for non-believers, but that’s because they have their faith and they can’t understand how anyone could possibly NOT believe and so they find apologetic arguments convincing and think everyone else will too.

But faith transitions do not happen that way – you don’t get argued into a strong belief any more than you get argued out of a strong belief. You start with questions about your beliefs first and then then when they’ve weakened you can change them. And it works both ways – atheists can start doubting their unbelief and gravitate back toward a faith. You see it sometimes in older atheists – the fear of death causes them to doubt their unbelief and they become open to arguments that they would have laughed off in previous years. But they weren’t brought back into belief because of a convincing argument – even if that’s how they justify it to themselves – they’d already started questioning their unbelief and the arguments start to look more convincing because of that.

I fail to see why you should even bother reading the book. I recently picked up a small book by a man named Lee Strobel. It was some sort of explanation and justification for “CHRISTmas” and I thought I might as well see what the man had to say. The book is an excerpt of a larger work.
To make a long story short, I got through the introduction and part of the first chapter. I found quite enough errors in fact, erroneous premises, and faulty logic in the first few pages, that I could not justify going on to myself.
Of course, there is no social aspect to consider, since the book was not proffered by a friend, and the money wasted was minimal.
If I cannot make it past the beginning of a book without finding errors and stupidity, why would I continue to the end. I would have asked the friend for a gift receipt.

I can empathise. Three or four years ago, (which was a few years before i had read Hitchens, Dawkins or Harris), i attended my sister’s church on Easter sunday. At that time, i was an agnostic, and i attended that day in order to watch my nieces perform in the children’s Easter program. I was offered a free copy of Lee Strobel’s “The Case for Easter”, and it sat on my shelf for a good year or two. When i finally took the time to read it, i became even less convinced about Christ than i was before! Strobel’s book claimed to be from the perspective of a skeptic/atheist who had done lots of research about the resurrection, and had been convinced enough to become a devout Christian. Strobel eventually became a pastor and apologetics author. Strobel’s background is interesting. He was a legal reporter for a Chicago newspaper, and awoved atheist, when his wife accepted Christ. At first, he was angry and resistant that his wife had “joined a weird cult” in his words, but over time, he noticed such positive changes in her demeanor, that he felt compelled to investigate further. He later became a Christian, and he claims that while before, he was a distant father and husband, who drank too much, and was prone to emotional outbursts, Christ has changed him, and he is an emotionally stable, nondrinkiner who is a better husband and father. First of all, none of this proves the existence of a deity, let alone a caring, nurturing one. Plenty of believers in Buddhism, and Islam, or other religions can brag the same type of “transformation”. Strobel’s thesis in “The Case for Easter” basically consits of,a) Hey, a bunch of 1st century people believed in this stuff, many of them enought to be martyrs, so there must be something to it! Wrong. Once again, see: Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, etc. b)Let’s use a lot of circular reasoning where i quote the bible to prove other parts of the bible. Fail#2 c) Let’s trot out some prominent conservative Christian theologians and biblical scholars such as William Lane Craig who will back up my arguments. He pretends that this is the work of a skeptic, and will appeal to the skeptical/scientific mindset. No, if this were truly a skeptical work, Strobel would have consulted some actual skeptics and presented their arguments, and then had Craig and company seek to refute their arguments. By the way, one thing that believers usually don’t count on is that people like us are usually way more acquainted with arguments against Christianity and theism than they are. This is due to the fact that, they often assume that the reason we are atheists is a lack of exposure to the Bible and Christian theology, wnen usually, it is the opposite is true. Also, exposure to sites like this provide us nonbelievers to plenty of good ammo.

When I was given ‘Letters from a Skeptic’ it changed my life.

I was always non-religious, and was raised in a non-religious family. I lived my life with no care if there were gods who watched my actions or decided my fate after I died. Then I ran into Vivian. She is a lovely woman who owned a coffee shop. I would often come by and get a cup, and a nice 15 minute conversation. After we had become friends, she began talking to me about religion.

She was quite surprised that I was an atheist. And set about trying to convert me. One of her tools was the book ‘Letters from a Skeptic’ which was a collection of correspondence between a skeptical father, and his son who became a minister.

I had never been pushed very hard when it came to my lack of faith. Usually, it was just a ‘arnt you worried about going to hell?’ or other similar questioning. The gentle yet relentless questioning was a tactic that had never been tried on me. So I decided to read the book, take notes, and get back to her.

I was quite amazed by the things written in the book, and couldn’t wait to begin asking Vivian about it. It started a year long dialog that catalyzed great change in both of us. Eventually Vivian sold her coffee shop and moved out of town, but by the end of our talks she seriously doubted the existence of God and Jesus.

Me? The book never gave me a glimmer of faith. It seemed ludicrous and the arguments were flimsy. What it changed in me was my attitude toward all the believers in the world. I realized it wasn’t hopeless, they can be fixed. I studied more, engaged theists more, became quite annoying to some, and changed the way many of them think.

It’s a delicious irony that Vivian’s attempt at saving my soul ended with her seriously doubting her own faith, and turned me into an activist against religion. Almost as delicious as her mango smoothies.

Forgive me for posting twice but I just read the book’s first few pages and would like to add that it most likely isn’t the strongest defense of religion out there. I guess even Yale sometimes lets through what amounts to a long one-star Amazon review. Oh well.

Eric Mattingly, post often and with fervor! I always work on the assumption that the comments section is a conversation, not a place to drop one liners.

I had another quick comment on Christian apologetics books.

Don’t skip reading them because you think you don’t have enough time. Even the tombs that appear a bit thicker have quite large text and wide columns. They are quite light on substance and are very quick reads.

Of course, that spells volumes about the quality of their content.

littlejohn is my new best friend…email me

It might be a good gift for someone who wants to exercise their skills in spotting logical fallacies?

One book I would encourage atheists to read is “The Case For Christ” by Lee Strobel (former skeptic)