Do I Not Deny That I Am Not a Non-Theist Denier?

Who’s on first, What’s on second, I Don’t Know’s on third…

Poe or severely mentally handicapped. It might be a Poe because usually when religious people write about atheist internet culture they’re completely ignorant, where as this person has clearly done some reading of atheist blogs. However, the site is quite full, a lot of effort for a Poe, and it’s incredibly hard to pretend to be crazy convincingly. The thing about rituals and the scarlet ‘A’ is conscious lying that can be easily checked so either this is writing for ignorant people or it’s a joke.

These atheists are incorrect in that once absolute truth is found that it cannot be questioned but because it is ‘absolute truth’ each time you honestly seek to discover absolute truth, you come back to the same ‘absolute truth’ because it is the ‘absolute truth.’ You see, absolute truth does not ever change over time into something different. Absolute truth is always and has always been and will always be absolute truth the same as it was, is, and will always be. Absolute truth is absolute truth for everyone. Absolute truth is always absolute truth for everyone.

Circular reasoning, repetition, thinking that this phrase has to be explained instead of realizing that the definition of “absolute” is widely known. Yeah, it definitely acts like a Christian blogger.

Warning: If you honestly pray the skeptic’s prayer, it will change your life because you will experience the presence of God and at that time you will know without doubt that God exists and that He wants to have a loving, personal relationship with you.

Tee hee. I’m reminded of the poorly-designed Geocities sites about magic I used to come across as a youngun. All the “spells” would come with warnings that they were REAL magic, and to not try them unless you’re absolutely serious and ready for the spiritual and karmic consequences!

Edit: That is, religious magic, not stage magic. Cursing people and making them fall in love with you and such. In case I confused anyone.

Second edit, because I’m blabby: Did anyone catch the message at the header of the blog?

“If there is the slightest possibility of God existing and that He has sent His only begotten Son Jesus to be your savior from your transgressions, wouldn’t it be wise to investigate it for yourself?”

Somehow, I doubt that this person has “investigated” the thousands upon thousands of other religions that have been invented, “just in case”. He really should, though. I’m sure some of them have even worse consequences for being naughty than even Christianity.

Thus in their saying that truth does not exist, they can deny that it is true that their non-belief in God requires of them any actual thought over their motto of, “Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.”

Where are these atheists who say that truth doesn’t exist? I keep hearing about them, but I’ve never met any.

I would deny or rebuke his claim but I haven’t figure out what it is yet.

Speaking of worshiping things, why do xians worship the cross – the very instrument used to execute their Main Guy? As Lenny Bruce observed, if Jesus had been executed in the 20th century, Catholic girls would be wearing little gold electric chairs on their necklaces. Do those people even think?

Another item of strong evidence pointing to atheism being a religion is the extravagant respect and admiration for and devotion to their symbol of the letter “A” which they hold in great esteem which they call, “Scarlet Letter.”

Isn’t that a bit like saying that Dallas Cowboy fans worship their blue star?

Like Samuel Clemens said, “Faith is believing what you know ain’t so.” By that definition, one would be correct (from my POV) stating that I have no faith in my atheism.

My favorite line:

We have seen how atheists deny the dictionary definitions of words to suit their own denials of their denial of their denying that they have a worldview,

I have to admit; at that point, I was pretty much sure it was a clever parody. But the post continues in a style to stupid and boring to be a true clever parody. Not Poe, just dumb.

Hannah.

Very good point about not wanting anything to do with religion. I was for a while, an Anglo-Catholic and when I finally got sick of the browbeating and jumping through mental hoops in order to justify the absurd I just walked away from it. I didn’t take up a belief in unbelief I just stopped believing ( or pretending to ) . This is what so many Christians ( and others ) can’t understand. Some of us just don’t need to believe in things, especially things that aren’t true.
This is something that goes beyond religion, political opinions can be very similar, you find people, from all parts of the political spectrum, who think that because you don’t agree with them on some point you must have some agenda ( usually hidden and dishonest ) of your own. It is basically paranoia and is a prime cause of countless miseries in the world. Of course when politics and religion come together it gets really poisonous.

Blah, blah, blah. A lot said without anything actually be said. I deny that I believe in gods of any kind. If they want to call that a religion then let them. They are allowed to make fools of themselves.

Sadly I think it is too poorly written to be a Poe.

My head hurts. Double-negatives I can deal with. I took Spanish. However, quintuple-negatives just give me a migraine.

The red A was a deliberate reference to the scarlet letter. Some people criticizing the out campaign don’t get it and think calling it the scarlet letter is an insult when it isn’t.

I prefer to think of it as the Red Badge of Courage.

Wouldn’t that make for an unfortunate literary metaphor? A self-inflicted wound that earns undeserved respect from your compatriots, even though you know it’s a lie…?

I think it’s depressing whether it’s a Poe or not. All Poes seem to do for me these days is remind me how stupid the actual fundies are. I don’t need to be reminded. They’re everywhere with their stupid.

The author thinks our debaptism ceremonies are some sort of ritual (rather than an entertaining, random way to spend an afternoon).

I would have to agree with the author. I was baptized as an infant, in a religion I have never practiced. Why would I take time to “undo” something I feel has no real significance in my life? It’s not like I’m planning my weekend and I come up with “Hey, why don’t I ‘debaptize’ myself!”.

It has to be real. No one could make this shit up.

So just how many of you have faith in your belief that God does not exist?

’s not like I’m planning my weekend and I come up with “Hey, why don’t I ‘debaptize’ myself!”.

I might get debaptized. If we were in a Party and somebody get the ball rolling, I might do it for the lulz.

Even though I was never baptized in the first place. You know, the lulz.

littlejohn people who follow Christ Jesus do not worship the cross, they worship Christ Jesus. the cross is only a symbol to remember the suffering Jesus did for us.

Hemant, it’s not so friendly of you to not let me answer the questions I’ve been asked just because you are afraid of it.

@GospelToday is Coca Cola a religious symbol? Is Intel a religion? Is Microsoft or Glaxo? What about the seal of the President of the United States or the Democratic donkey logo?

The Scarlet Letter A is an icon but not in a religious sense. It does remind atheists that there are other people who do not believe in gods, that we aren’t alone in the face of intrusive and ubiquitous religion. The entire OUT campaign is to encourage atheists to be more public about a lack of belief in gods. We can all benefit from dispelling silly rumours about us that only exist because of ignorance of what atheism is.

One such thing that needs dispelling is the assumption that atheists deny the Christian god in the sense of rebelling against God. This is not the case. I do not rebel against God anymore than I rebel against Thor or Ra. I simply don’t find the idea of ANY god compelling. I find the idea of gods logically inconsistent and I give greater credence to the rational explanations for god belief than for actual gods.

I appreciate that some people like the idea and that some even find it comforting. I’ve no interest in shattering that illusion for you. All I want is same consideration from theists. The OUT campaign and the public face of atheism only exists because many theists are not content to keep their “personal relationship with Jesus Christ” (or any other god) personal. They have to force it on others.

Stick around and read some of the articles here. Understand that we are all singing from the same hymn sheet (so to speak) so the concepts and language might be less accessible than a Christian site might be for you. You’ll see an underlying theme after a time and it isn’t a rebellion against your particular god.

If you like I could also point you to many other resources that explain the position of atheists in a largely theistic world.

@GospelToday that is a long and wordy piece of text that completely misses the point that I outlined in my last comment. It is simply wrong but I’ve already explained why so won’t do so again.

The assertion that atheism is a religion is simply not true. My Oxford English Dictionary defines religion as follows:
• noun 1 the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. 2 a particular system of faith and worship. 3 a pursuit or interest followed with devotion.
— ORIGIN originally in the sense life under monastic vows: from Latin religio ‘obligation, reverence’.

What is it that we atheists are supposed to revere? You cannot even put atheism in the same category as a philosophy or political ideal that attracts a following. It is simply too broad a term to work in that way.

I have gone into more detail on my own blog in an effort to explain this. Feel free to read and comment there if you like. Is the site linked to your name your own blog or one that you refer to?

hoverFrog, everyone has a worldview from which they view and understand the world. Your worldview has you see evidence in one way and my worldview may have me seeing the exact same evidence in another way.

You stated in my blog that, “A religion doesn’t need any supernatural power to be a religion.” and you also stated that you agree to that fact when you said, “I agree.” You also gave an example of this with Buddhism; “Buddhism has no inherent supernatural assumption but it is undeniably a religion.” This I agree with you that a religion does not need any supernatural power to be a religion however I disagree with you that Buddhism has no inherent supernatural assumption.

The Mahayana sutras which is a very broad genre of Buddhist scriptures hold that they are original teachings of the Buddha and has a supernatural aspect to it. Followers of Mahayana teachings hold that the teachings were given to, and preserved by, beings in other realms (either supernatural beings or Buddhas and Bodhisattvas on other planes of being). In general however, Buddhism is comparatively however has no inherent supernatural assumptions. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana_Sutras)

Note that if I wrote that Atheism as you put it in your comment on my blog, “is mainly based on the myth of Darwinian Evolution” I did a poor sentence structure as this is not what the religion of Atheism is mainly based on. The religion of Atheism is mainly based on the presupposition that God does not exist and Darwinian Evolution is the myth held to that many atheists hold without evidence as “proof” to say that God does not exist.

You make a common mistake that many atheists make in that you confuse religion with the existence of God. The two are mutually exclusive. God’s existence or not is not dependent upon any religion.

I agree with you that Evolution is unrelated to the religion of Atheism. It is the myth of Darwinian Evolution that atheists hold to as evidence to say that Christian claims are incorrect. Evolution is something we observe over time and can validate and is fact. Darwinian Evolution however is merely myth which has never been observed nor validated and is a myth that the religion of Atheism uses as fact without evidence of it occurring. Atheists tend to not properly state the difference between evolution which is observable and Darwinian Evolution which has never been observed. This lack of distinction is used to falsely promote evidence of observable evolution as that of Darwinian Evolution when in fact the two are mutually exclusive.

You stated on your blog, “Just for the record: atheism is a lack of belief in gods. That’s it.” That definition shows that you have a firm belief in something for which there is no proof (against God’s existence) and complete trust that you are correct to have a lack of belief in God. Your comment in my blog, “I have no faith in gods” along with the statement you made on your blog quoted above grouped with the way you believe and defend your position with such a strong conviction shows the faith you have in the religion of Atheism.

The Atheism system of beliefs you hold to with such ardor and faith displays as a personal set of attitudes, beliefs, and practices that you have demonstrated in my blog, on your blog and others which proves you are following a religion; specifically, the religion of Atheism. The fact that you are defending Atheism so greatly and have taken such a scrupulously and conscientiously faithful stance in defense of Atheism shows that you are a religious follower of the religion of Atheism. In fact, the continuing way you defend the religion of Atheism is expressing great devotion and piety to it which shows that you are a devout follower of the religion of Atheism.

The use of the words religion, religious, faith, and devout I have used all comes from proper us of and application for each of these words as they are defined on the http://www.merriam-webster.com website. Whether or not you agree or disagree with my application of these words is up to you. It all goes back to the worldview you have and the worldview I have that allows us to view the evidence at hand. A worldview is a set of beliefs that underline and shape all human thought and action. The question is not whether you have a worldview or not, but whether the worldview you are living by is a good one.

hoverFrog, please answer these questions for me so that I don’t have to make assumptions about them:

1: Where did mankind come from? (Origin)

2: How do you separate good from bad? (Morality)

3: What is your life’s meaning? (Purpose)

4: What is going to happen to you after you die? (Destiny)

Hoverfrog has had amazing patience with you. By his leave, Ill give your questions some good answers.

1. Homo Sapiens most likely diverged from Homo Erectus between 200k and 100k years ago.

2. Good from bad is determined by the rules of your society. For example, we in the US consider it always bad when someone kills their daughter. Now take the early Christians and Jews. They thought Jephtah was being a good moral person when he put a knife into his daughter and burned her corpse to sacrifice her to Yahweh. Morality is not absolute. A behavior one group calls evil, another will consider perfectly moral.

3. My life’s meaning is to learn as much as possible, and to pass as much of that on to the next generation. Im compulsively autodidactic. Everyones purpose will be different. Purpose is a human created concept, so it is what you make it.

4. What do great composers do when they die? They Decompose! Who I am requires brain function. A skilled brain surgeon could change who I ‘am’ by removing parts of my brain. Once the brain is no longer working, I will no longer exist.

To your second post:

Yes, most people know that Dawkns admits to not having definitive proof for the non existence of any god. And thats ANY god, not just yours. He assumes it is just as likely the great Ju Ju is real, or Wotan, or Thor, or Zeus, et al. Don’t try to pretend that he is giving Yahweh any special status.

On the “Is atheism a religion?” question, I have the following comment. One thing all religions have in common is the human desire to “get something for nothing” (or getting an infinitely larger reward for a finite smaller sacrifice). Its the idea that by purposefully adopting certain beliefs or engaging in certain activities (or not engaging in certain activities) that you expect an infinitely large payout in the future (like eternal life in heaven after you die). The other component is that this payout (or reward) comes from “outside” our world… It is a gift from a supernatural god.

The closest thing atheism has to this is that by sacrificing to get an education (or learn a trade), one can have a better job in the future. The difference is that the reward comes from this world and is a direct consequence of the activities of the person getting the reward. (Like having a successful business or doing well on a job). Atheism has no expectation of any reward from beyond. No “gifts” from a supernatural god. So therefore, atheism (or science or naturalism) does not meet this criteria of being a religion.

The whole may be greater than the sum of the parts, but not infinitely greater.
There is no evidence that the notion of life after death is anything other than just wishful thinking.

Did any of you catch the fact (on page 77 in the paperback version of “The God Delusion”) that Richard Dawkins said that God is not disprovable?

Here then he goes on to delude his prey that it is irrelevant that one cannot disprove God’s existence and says that his seven graduated levels of milestone human judgments about the existence of God is the right way to disprove God.
The very table that Richard Dawkins put together to disprove God through his “spectrum of probabilities” he says is the best way to disprove God whom he said just before is not disprovable. Well, duh! Leave it to Richard Dawkins to trick his prey into thinking that he can do the impossible and disprove something that is by his own words said that cannot be disproved.

Leave it to Richard Dawkins to proclaim that he can do such miracle as to disprove God’s existence because he holds supreme power over his prey since he is going to use something of his own design to disprove something that is not disprovable so to prove to his prey his powerful powers and that his assumption is the truth and that he is right and his word is truth, as always forever and ever it will be.

The Richard Dawkins Delusion (Part 2) – The god Richard Dawkins http://bit.ly/4nFJ0L

Correct you if you’re wrong? I’d almost be tempted to say you never read the responses!

You even went so far as to re-ask your question I answered

Did any of you catch the fact (on page 77 in the paperback version of “The God Delusion”) that Richard Dawkins said that God is not disprovable?

where I responded

Yes, most people know that Dawkns admits to not having definitive proof for the non existence of any god. And thats ANY god, not just yours. He assumes it is just as likely the great Ju Ju is real, or Wotan, or Thor, or Zeus, et al. Don’t try to pretend that he is giving Yahweh any special status.

I don’t think you have bothered to read a fraction of what is written, and failed to understand any of what you read.

Try again to paraphrase what we’ve said.

Restated without your personal emotional rants to confirm your answers:

1: Where did mankind come from? (Origin)
Darwinian Evolution for mankind
No answer for origin of life as it is still in question.

2: How do you separate good from bad? (Morality)
Popular majority after and exploring and seeing the implications of our actions.

3: What is your life’s meaning? (Purpose)
No set purpose.
Be a good parent.
Learn more.
Teach next generation.

4: What is going to happen to you after you die? (Destiny)
Totally cease to exist (maybe).

Please correct me if I’m wrong in restating your answers. Please do so without any personal rants if you can.

Thank you Revyloution for the assistance with the responses to my questions…

Let me clarify a bit more so to make sure I understand.

1: Where did mankind (life) come from? (Origin)
Abiogenesis for origin of life.
Darwinian Evolution for mankind.

2: How do you separate good from bad? (Morality)
Popular majority after and exploring and seeing the implications of our actions; cannot really be described in one sentence.

3: What is your life’s meaning? (Purpose)
No set purpose for the whole but is set by the person who wants purpose; individual choice.

4: What is going to happen to you after you die? (Destiny)
Totally cease to exist.
(note that “maybe” was added per hoverFrog’s statement “If by some quirk of nature you find yourself existing after your brain is mush then treat that as a bonus…”)

Please correct me if I’m wrong in restating your answers.

@Gospeltoday,

Concerning your applying my words to atheism, I don’t think it works. For example, I don’t personally believe in the “flying spaghetti monster” (FSM). Technically, I’m an aFSMist. Perhaps you are too. I would not consider my lack of belief in a FSM a religion. I merely consider all religions made-up (just like FSM). Some are just more popular and have better stories than others.

The Atheist worldview is in a great crisis because it has no foundational support for what it says it believes in. The Atheist worldview holds as truth that it is based on science, logic, and reason. In fact, the Atheist worldview has no basis to prove that it is based on science, logic, and reason without actually giving evidence that the Biblical worldview is true because only the Biblical worldview by its own definition is founded on science, logic and reason as set forth within the Holy Bible. Both the Atheist worldview and the Biblical worldview cannot both be true because that would be a contradiction breaking the law of non-contradiction therefore, the Atheist worldview is false and the Biblical worldview is true.

Beyond Doubt – Christianity is True – Atheism is False http://bit.ly/5vtvvF