Setting the Record Straight on Judaism

The idea that Jews have horns is based on a simple misreading of a Biblical verse

I don’t think this is true, otherwise the refrain of the timeless folk song In My Country There is Problem would make no sense.

I don’t really consider my self Jewish any more. I will take issue with number 3 also. The idea that Jews think they are the chosen people of God by blood is no different that the Nazi claim that the Aryan race is chosen by God by blood. The only real difference is that the Jews don’t expect everyone else to treat them special. They are just happy in their knowledge that God loves them best.

Being the “chosen people” is a curse, not a blessing.

A lot of people think that having Jewish heritage is a fun thing to bring up whenever the topic of Judaism comes up, like having Irish heritage on Saint Patrick’s day. For most people, it’s all about bagels and a few extra days off work, and perhaps avoiding the occasional shellfish.

Personally, I was sent to an orthodox Jewish grade school. I was raised to believe that the best possible thing to do with your time at any moment is to study the Torah. I was taught that it was better to spend my day at home in the dark on Saturday rather than to use electricity at home for any purpose or take the car out to a family activity. Worst of all, I was taught to pray for several hours daily and try to connect to a god whose presence I never felt.

Having grown up, my parents decided to antagonize my fiancee (now wife) and myself leading up to our wedding due to the fact that she isn’t Jewish. This has lead to a breakdown in my relationship with my parents. Of course, my atheism and rejection of the Jewish label weren’t sufficient to cause this breakdown because just like the author of the article, they feel that Judaism is an inherited trait. But God forbid I don’t pass it along to my unwilling children.

I reject this label because of the harm I have seen it cause when used by bigots (both Jewish and not) who see Jews as a separate culture from the rest of society and because I do not subscribe to the religious beliefs that are inescapably linked to the Jewish label. If I’m wrong about that, somebody should tell the Israeli men who spend their Saturdays spitting on those who break the Sabbath that their religion isn’t really about their holy books after all.

How many out atheists who grew up in Christian households would accept being identified with the sect of their parents? Are there any proud fundamentalist Christian atheists here? Any Baptist atheists? Catholic? It amazes me that anyone finds this acceptable. I find the attempts to saddle me with the Jewish label hateful and offensive.

when i was growing up i went to synagogue every weekend, had a bar mitzvah @13, and the whole 9. but as i grew older, the hypocrisy became more & more apparent to me and i was no longer able to ignore it. i guess i woke up one day and realized that i had really just been going through the motions because that’s what i’d been taught to do. i was also really bothered by what i perceived as a very insular collective attitude by jews toward non-jews (the most vivid examples can be seen in any orthodox community). pretty disgusting behavior from folks who spend their entire lives with their noses in a moldy old tome that, among other things, teaches that you should “love your neighbor”… but what do you expect from a group of individuals who devote their lives to the study of a 2,000+ year old, mostly irrelevant, ridiculously anthropocentric scroll?

i have no cause or desire to shed my past, and i hold so many of those memories very dear (i was very close to my ultra-conservative, old-world eastern european grandfather)… but judaism to me is no different than any other religion in that it’s based on a book that was written before people knew where the sun went every night. plus, the whole angry, petty, vengeful/loving/vengeful/loving creator thing is just a bit too silly for me.

re; “coming out” (not as an atheist. i’m more of a naturalist/dysteleologist; i don’t believe that the universe has any purpose or “mind”, and that nature, in all it’s purposeless beauty, is all there is) — this for me was no problem at all, and really wasn’t an “event”. my family clings more to the tradition than they do to the religion. i do think though that my mom was a bit disappointed, but they’re all very respectful and don’t vibe me about anything, and i’m always respectful when participating in stuff like passover, mainly because it means so much to my mother and her memories of her parents.

i have so much to say about this subject, but i’ll just leave it at that.

thanks for the forum, hemant.

I married a jewish-by-ancestry-not-by-faith atheist who grew up in a jewish atheist family. We don’t observe any jewish (or christian, for that matter) holidays or traditions but we DO offer kosher catering to our jewish clientele. that’s the extent of it.

Mainstream Jewish movements reject the idea of chosenness as superiority. It’s quite clear that the Tanakh tells a different story, where Yahweh justifies racial superiority and separatist views. Of course Jews are no different to the other religions that ignore or reject scripture in this way. Religions incorporated myths about ethnicity, a culture is going to make themselves superior in their own myths, it’s basic human arrogance. Those beliefs can be maintained in ignorance, but today it’s not maintainable by the majority.

Immigrants sometimes lose their identities and religion when isolated. If you’re immersed in another culture, in time you will lose your identity with your former culture. I think what the Rabbi means is not losing your identity, but he is referring to qualifying as a Jew in his eyes. Apparently if you were Jew, whatever you do, you still qualify as a Jew to him.

They are chosen, rather, to be God’s agents of blessing to everyone else – to help serve and love the world. In other words, it’s being chosen to help in a particular (and exceptionally difficult) task, not because God likes them more or because there is anything extra-special about them.

Like when Tom Cruise sees a traffic accident and knows that as a Scientologist, he’s the only one who can help. Jews might not believe that they were chosen because they were better, but it’s laughable to suggest that being chosen by God to spread love and blessings throughout the earth doesn’t make them better.

I was born in a fairly secular Jewish family and, growing up, I considered myself Jewish although I can’t remember if I actually believed any of the religious aspects (nor do I know if anybody aside from my grandmother did, and even she’s an agnostic now; her husband was an open atheist). I was fairly “religious” when I was younger in that I enjoyed going to synagogue and singing the prayers, up until the point of my Bar Mitzvah; after that I more or less just stopped caring, and I started calling myself an atheist soon after.

I still consider myself culturally/ethnically Jewish (although, to meet me, you probably wouldn’t know it), and I still observe the Jewish holidays for tradition’s sake. My atheism is much more a part of my identity than Judaism has ever been, however.

They are chosen, rather, to be God’s agents of blessing to everyone else – to help serve and love the world. In other words, it’s being chosen to help in a particular (and exceptionally difficult) task, not because God likes them more or because there is anything extra-special about them.

This part doesn’t really make sense to me. Why select a certain group to help serve/love the world? I imagine you will/could point me to a verse where it says that everybody is supposed to do that, but in that case why bother to select a group?

…to be God’s agents of blessing to everyone else – to help serve and love the world…

31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Led Zeppelin – Whole Lotta Love

Way, way down inside, I’m gonna give you my love,
I’m gonna give you every inch of my love

Mike Clawson wrote:

Do you really believe it is “megalomania” to feel a calling on one’s life to help others? If I say that I feel like God has called me to spend my life in love and service of others (which I do), not because I think I’m better than anyone else, but just because I think it’s what God wants me to do, does that make me a megalomaniac? If a whole people group feels that way, does that make them all megalomaniacs?

I think individuals saying they feel they’ve been ‘called’ to help others doesn’t cause any kind of negative reaction in most people….

but I think it’s the idea that a certain group claims to be specially ‘called’ that some people have an issue with.

I think such claims/traditions exacerbate the human species’ natural (and unforunately, rampant) inclination to create ‘us’ and ‘them’ polarities. To quote Tammy Faye Bakker (yes, I’m serious:): “We’re all just people, made out of the same old dirt”

Once a Jew, always a Jew. This is so Hotel California

“you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.”

If you choose to join which is 5. then surly you can choose to leave?

Also if you choose to join how come you can choose to be one of gods chosen????

I am the person who contributed the original article and my intentions were not to offend and Jewish folk or to enrage any atheists.

If you take the time to read the actual article, it is meant to show how Judaism is not the evil, self centred, mysterious religion that it is often portrayed as. It is actually about helping others and focusing on trying to be a good person.

Did you know that they try and do a certain amount of Mitzvah (acts of human kindness) every year?

I posted the article to Mehta in this context:

I’m not saying I’m going to run off and sign myself up or anything (I’m as much an atheist as the next man) but this lot don’t sound like a bad bunch?

The only Jews I’ve really had the pleasure of spending any time with were very welcoming and really helped me out. They only talked about religion because I brought it up and asked questions about it. They didn’t even try and eat my babies ;o)

Why do they get such a hard time of it?

I’m glad it’s sparked so much debate (one of the biggest responses I’ve seen on here) but the original intention was not to bash Jews or defend them, it was mearly to ponder on why such a kind loving religion could be the focus of so much hate over the years.

I think what us atheists sometimes have to remember is, just because someone has a religious label attached to them doesn’t always mean they’re terrible, uneducated, dreamers living in the stone age. They are very often just good people trying to get on in this life.

All peoples tend to believe in their status as specially chosen by their gods or fate. It is part of the innate tribalism of human nature. The Jews just happen to inherit theirs from a continuous and old religious tradition. At least some of them have enlightened their tribalism with a dose of humility. Meanwhile, Americans yammer on about the myth of their ‘exceptionalism’ and the delusion that they can ‘gift’ democracy to the world when the real goal is to export empty consumerism to exploitable markets.

Paraphrasing Christofer Hitchens:
‘So is it true you thank god every morning you were not born a woman or a gentile ?’
‘No, not every morning …’

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/texts/Liturgy_and_Prayers/Siddur_Prayer_Book/Preliminary_Readings/Who_Has_Not_Made_Me_a_Woman.shtml
(“Morning blessings”)

Just to clarify that bit about not understanding being a “Jewish atheist,” as someone said the wouldn’t identify themselves as a “Protestant atheist.”

Judaism is not (just) a religion. It’s an ethnic/racial group. You are Jewish in the same way that you are Italian, Albanian, Nigerian, etc. It is *also* a religion.

You can give up the portion of your Jewishness that is related to belief, but you can not “give up” your Jewish heritage any more than you can ‘choose’ not to have been raised in an Italian culture.

I am an atheist Jew. I have no religious beliefs, I don’t celebrate any jewish holidays, but have taken back the tradition of celebrating the Russian New Year (which is more or less identical to Christmas, except it’s on Jan 1st and sky-fairies aren’t involved.) I am also a Jew: my last name is Jewish, my relatives live in Israel, I love my matzoh ball soup and chalvah. I went to synagogue after school as a kid, can still read and write a bit in Hebrew, and have a circle of friends composed primarily of other non-religous Jews.

Being an atheist Jew is like being an atheist Roman Catholic Italian. You can ditch the “RC” portion of the title, but not the Italian half. Except for Jews it’s not “RC Italian,” it’s “Jewish Jew.”

The hole in the sheet for sex is a myth

What, wait, there’s no hole in the sheet? Sounds uncomfortable…

I really wish a mythical being loved me the most. I have to put up with second best- being hated by a bunch of ignorant christian creationists theists!

PS Why set the record straight? I always thought records worked best if they were round? And now they’ve got rid of the hole in the sheets, will they eliminate the hole in the record next? Is there no limit to their evil plans to dominate the hole world?

Well, I guess this posting blows this steryotype away.

I am looking for Atheist who can tell me if Evil exists? I have looked at the achirves and I cannot see anything about evil?

http://dawkinswatch.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/does-evil-exist-part-2/

From Dawkinswatch’s linked article:

Now John Dee was the chief astrologer in the court of Elisabeth the first but he was a practiser of Enochian Magic and they used to invoke “angels ” during their rituals and in one of those sessions Dee drew up the angel they used to comunicate with , by the name of Lam. Does he not look like a grey “alien”?

Nut. Ball.

I asked this at the Belief.net article as well.
Can anyone direct me towards any evidence of “Once a Jew, always a Jew”? Any sort of scientific paper showing common genetic markers between all Jews or something similar?
Thank you,
thatguy

I am looking for Atheist who can tell me if Evil exists? I have looked at the achirves and I cannot see anything about evil?

Religious institutions that protect child predators are evil. See, that wasn’t so hard.

@Siamang

I posted my “evil” response before I clicked on his link. The notion of a grey alien serving as a court astrologer to Queen Elizabeth I seems less probable than a celestial teapot in an elliptical orbit between Earth and Mars but a bit more probable than all of the supernatural stuff in the Torah (just to keep this a bit on topic).