My Talk on Atheism and Dating

Hemant! Any little people (or “midgets” as you so elegantly put it) who meet you from now on absolutely have the right to kick you square in the nuts.

Sure, the girl from your example was dishonest by not disclosing such a major fact about herself, but you made it sound like it would be an automatic deal-breaker for anyone in your shoes, which it isn’t.

The rest of the presentation was pretty good (and nice pictures), but we totally cringed at my house when you told that first story.

Now, the Springer thing is totally different, and no one who’s been on Springer has the right to kick you in the nuts.

Well, that was unkind.

It isn’t just your use of the word “midget” that has everybody up in arms; it’s your disrespect and lack of empathy for a whole category of people defined not by their character, but by a physical attribute over which they have no control.

Nobody is saying you’re morally required to be attracted to little people. But to publicly ridicule an often antagonized population (“did she go up on you?”, “I helped her climb it like it was Everest or something”) and characterize them as the epitome of bad surprises on a date… don’t you think that if such a person were to stumble upon this video, she would rightfully feel hurt?

Such callous ignorance isn’t the kind of thing that can be patched up with a footnote on a blog entry, it’s the kind of thing that you should be far too embarrassed to post on your blog to begin with.

“helped her climb the passenger seat like it was Everest”

What, was that supposed to get a laugh or something? This just makes atheists look really bad, and I really hope this video doesn’t spread very far.

:: Or perhaps omitted that story altogether… ::

This.

Or better yet, stop treating people like that. It’s not just a matter of not telling such stories in public; it’s not living them, too.

I tried to ride past that story to see what else you had to say, but between it being SUCH an obvious ridiculous deal-breaker that she could think it reasonable to date you, making fun of her for not being able to get into your car without assistance, and the HI-LARIOUS joke your friend made and you felt a need to pass on to us, I decided that I didn’t have enough respect for the way you treat other people to want to know what you had to say about dating.

I agree with the 1st comment (Ruthless Benedict). I’m not going to be too hard on you because in general, save for a few frat boy-esque posts, your blog is fantastic and my life is better for having it in it.

I rather think what’s important is that Hemant is admitting he made an error – we call can screw up, and say things that aren’t proper.

As an atheist who has a disability, and as the child of a mother who has several disabilities, the presentation just disgusted me. It is like, wait a minute, is this the same Hemant that I’ve known since 2005?

I don’t mean to be rude, but you should have left the dating topic to an atheist who was actually engaged or married. Those people could lend insights in actually maintaining relationships, not just talking about encounters gone sour.

And to Veritas, it’s not like Hemant just made an error. This YouTube video has already been viewed nearly 600 times. I can guarantee you that it will be watched by a midget, or the parent or a friend of a “little person”. In short, it has the potential to ruin somebody’s day.

Let me give you a true story. Friday, I went to a doctor for a debilitating medical condition that I have. My Mom, who was also there, is a friend of two of their receptionists, a mother and a daughter.

Apparently, the daughter found this really hot guy who also went to see my Doctor. The daughter receptionist asked her Mom what was wrong with him, and she said “Oh, you really wouldn’t want a date from a person going to this doctor!”

This was relayed to my Mom and me, and the message was “People like you are not worth of dates!” I found this encounter really depressing, and I have struggled with feelings of worthlessness and depression for the whole weekend. In short, like many of the midgets who will hear this, I felt like life wasn’t worth living because nobody would date someone with my handicap.

In short, when we demean people with disabilities, we send the message that they are second class citizens. I have suffered from a medical condition my whole adult life, and I know what it’s like to be a member of a victimized group. What you did, Hemant, was very wrong, and you should write a public apology for your remarks.

I was appalled. I just switched it off; an advantage of watching something cruel and offensive on your computer. I kept thinking of what the girl herself would be feeling if she sees it — which is very probable. It was much much worse than merely using the word “midget”. The whole attitude shown was dreadful.

Sorry. Had to be said.

“I reckon that anyone who volunteers for Jerry Springer can probably survive hearing a couple of jokes from the likes of Hemant.”
This isn’t about that individual. It’s about an expressed attitude towards an entire class of people.

Like others here, I couldn’t get past the opening.

Um… AJ. I did’t seek out Hemant to dump on him. He asked for what people thought. I am a regular reader of his blog and a fan of his book. HE ASKED for opinion, and he’s received it. If he hadn’t asked, I would not have bothered to say anything.

It’s not off topic — it is what Hemant asked for. It’s not “ape shit” … most responses have been a lot more polite than yours. It’s not feigned or self absorbed; I suspect that the biggest reason for the negative reaction is empathy, which is just the opposite.

The “go up on you” was funny; but it wasn’t just a generic joke. It was in relation to a specific girl who is easily identifiable.

You can disagree by all means. You can say that anyone who appears on Springer has forfeited all further right to respect.

But I don’t agree; and Hemant asked what people thought. He’s found out, as I presume he wanted.

Bottom line is I think the midget jokes don’t look good for Atheists and doesn’t belong on 2 of the most popular Atheist blogs. Regardless of whether or not people like to be politically incorrect on their own, it’s just something that all the anti-atheists are probably gonna use against us – certainly it’s not “friendly”.

But Hemant, don’t quit your day job. Your talk was funny at times (and maybe that was the point) but in general it seemed like your dating advice was for hopeless nerds.

I definitely think it would have been better to omit the “midget” story. It may come across as intolerant to some.

Other than that, I thought your presentation was pretty good. It did appear like your speech was, in some spots, similar to advice for people who have less experience with dating/socializing, for example geeky people like me. But I liked most of it.

Now you know how those of us who didn’t know “negro” was a slur felt.

Wow, Chimaera, I don’t even know how to respond to that, but I know I need to.

Learning respectful vocabulary is a process, not something that is learned by osmosis. Hemant, and many others of us here, just learned a more respectful word than midget, which is how learning happens. And I’m assuming all of us will continue to learn and adapt to the social and political changes occurring in this country, which we are trying to be a part of, after all. And that all means new vocabulary.

How long ago did you find out that the word Negro was sorely outdated? Last week? Then it was indeed time you learned. 30 years ago? Time to let it go.
Keep on learning and growing.

Mariana,

For shame…that opening story made you sound just as intolerant and insensitive as religious people are accused of being.

I can understand insensitive, especially for the Everest joke, but I’d really like a justification for why you think Hemant is intolerant, especially since he went beyond his duty and stayed on the date. If anything he was being the opposite of intolerant in his story. If we should get upset about words it should be words being thrown at us like “intolerant” when it’s completely unjustified.

The implication that Hemant was just as intolerant as religious people I hope is not refering to their treatment of gays. If it is, you need to step the fuck back and actually think about what you’re equating.

Putting aside the joke at their expense as this has been covered already I wonder why she felt it necessary to exclude her height from her profile.

By choosing the word “exclude,” you display a callous ignorance to this person’s situation. This implies that you are entitled to know that this person is “of limited stature,” or whatever the hell pc term you like. All people should be entitled to a normally developed body, but she was not. Now, who is really screwed here, Hemant or the girl? Why did Hemant not include his important stipulation of knowing what you look like from the neck down? It’s his own damn fault, and you want to blame it on some imagined sneaky exclusion.

In dating, if you don’t do your homework and you are disappointed, it’s your fault.

Tom, read the rest of my comment before going off on rant. I’m not seeing any winners here. There is nothing “wrong” with being short any more than there is with being brown skinned or having a hair lip.

I’m suggesting that there are social pressures on people to conform. These limit people’s willingness to date short people or atheists or anyone else who is not is a “normal” category. So what do we do? We hide these things in the hope that we’ll get lucky and it won’t make a difference in the end, that our unusual characteristics don’t define us as people.

Hemant shouldn’t have joked at anyone’s expense but he’s already said as much. I’m more interested in the parallels between attitudes to dwarfism or something like race (obvious, external differences) and attitudes to atheism (an internalised attitude or opinion) when it comes to dating. It seems clear that both make a difference to the initial choices that people make but also that they are not insurmountable.

The short lady hid her height on her profile and Hemant hid his religious opinion on his profile. Both seemed to gain more access to dates as a result. For people who are seeking mates can you blame them for a lie of omission? Either of them?

hoverFrog wrote:

The short lady hid her height on her profile and Hemant hid his religious opinion on his profile. Both seemed to gain more access to dates as a result. For people who are seeking mates can you blame them for a lie of omission?

Here’s an interesting scenario……

Imagine if the little person had a similar ‘visceral’ reaction to Hemant upon finding out that he’s an atheist ~ then imagine her giving a talk about dating and relating the anecdote in a kind of (unwittingly) mocking way towards his atheism.

(I don’t know if that elicits any ‘revelatory wisdom(s)’ at all, but it’s always interesting to imagine a reverse scenario, now matter what the situation 🙂

The essence of the issue here seems to be this truth about ‘blind’ dating:

what some people consider to be ‘irrelevant’ personal characteristics, others see as being very relevant and/or ‘worthy of note’ when it comes to describing oneself.

Who ‘should’ decide what’s relevant-to-know? the person with the characteristic in question or the person meeting them for a blind date?