Rick Warren Can’t Cover Up His Hypocrisy

Pastor Rick Warren was already caught on tape lying about his stance on gay rights.

He said this on Larry King Live the other night:

… I am not an anti-gay or anti-gay marriage activist. I never have been, never will be.

During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement, never — never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop 8 was going.

Except for the tiny little endorsement he gave to the tens of thousands of members of Saddleback Church right before the vote took place:

In that video, he states:

“Now let me just say this really clearly. We support Proposition 8. And if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8.”

Which sounds like a direct contradiction… to everyone except Rick Warren, who was trying to explain himself in an interview with Christianity Today:

What I was trying to say is, those who obviously opposed my viewpoint on the biblical definition or the historical definition of marriage were trying to turn me into an anti-gay activist. The truth is, Proposition 8 was a two-year campaign in the state, and during those two years, I never said a word about it until the eight days before the election, and then I did make a video for my own people when they asked, “How should we vote on this?” It was a pastor talking to his own people. I’ve never said anything about it since. I don’t know how you take one video newsletter to your own church and turn that into, all of a sudden I’m the poster boy for anti-gay marriage.

When you make a video “for your own people” where you tell them to vote in favor of Proposition 8 is exactly why Warren ought to be demonized for his beliefs. If telling thousands of people to vote for Prop 8 isn’t anti-gay, then what is?

He then uses the old and annoying Christian line about how he “loves” everybody (but only because he is commanded to do so) and yet everybody hates him.

When we disagree and point to his own words, he calls it hate. When he tries to use politics to curtail equal rights for gay people, he calls it love.

I don’t understand his logic.

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Jeff

His reach goes far beyond the congregation at his own particular church. There are many many Baptists churches around the country that are basically clones (just much smaller) of his own church. Many churches use his books for bible study and hang on his every word… including anything said about gay marriage.

His logic comes from reconciling the world with the bible and, of course, the bible (and God) come first. Everything about the world comes second.
GDad

“I don’t understand his logic.”

I think that’s the problem. It’s more faulty reasoning than real logic.
Tao Jones

“I never said anything anti-gay before or after I made that anti-gay video.”

Isn’t that what he just said?
Thomas Whitley

Thanks for sharing. It’s Christians like this that give those of us who actually understand that we can love people because we actually love them and not simply because we were commanded to do it a bad name.

And I agree with GDad, it’s not logic at all. IMO, it’s more like he’s speaking out of both sides of his mouth.
Arthwollipot

I’m still trying to find the Bible verse that says that marriage is between one man and one woman. I’m sure it’s in there somewhere…
Reginald Selkirk

“And if you believe what the Bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8.”

I don’t understand that “logic” either. How does holding a religious belief about something mean that you are mandated to enforce that belief on other people? Rick Warren is many layers of stupid.
Reginald Selkirk

I’m still trying to find the Bible verse that says that marriage is between one man and one woman. I’m sure it’s in there somewhere…

Try Gen. 4:19 – And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.

Oops, that’s not it.

Or maybe Gen 28:9 – Then went Esau unto Ishmael, and took unto the wives which he had Mahalath the daughter of Ishmael Abraham’s son, the sister of Nebajoth, to be his wife.

Oops, that’s not it either.

Try Gen 30:26 – Give me my wives and my children, for whom I have served thee, and let me go: for thou knowest my service which I have done thee.

Wrong again.

Maybe Gen 31:17 – Then Jacob rose up, and set his sons and his wives upon camels

Nope.

Gen 36:2 – Esau took his wives of the daughters of Canaan; Adah the daughter of Elon the Hittite, and Aholibamah the daughter of Anah the daughter of Zibeon the Hivite;

Darn, missed again.

Judges 8:30 – And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives.

Hmmm.

1 Sam 1:2 – And he had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah: and Peninnah had children, but Hannah had no children.

I’m sure it’s in there somewhere…

1 Sam 25:43 – David also took Ahinoam of Jezreel; and they were also both of them his wives.

David was Yahweh’s dearly beloved one, wasn’t he?

1 Kings 11:3 – And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.

That’s Solomon they’re talking about, surely such a wise man would know about this universal cultural tradition.

I know, I can use the old canard about the Old Testament being replaced by the New; although that cuts my universal tradition down to about 2000 years:

Mat 19:5-9 – And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

I guess that must be it. Although it doesn’t explicitly say that a man should have only one wife, I’m willing to pretend that it does.
Justin

I used to be the same way. I thought love meant keeping gay marriage from happening. God will be mad if you gay people get married; I’m just keeping God from being even more mad at you than he already is for you being gay to begin with. This is love.

So I understand him. I also understand he’s wrong.
Polly

The Bible is understood as 1 big book and teaches against homosexuality both in the NT and OT in the harshest terms – calling it an “abomination” in one translation. For literalists, it makes no difference whether JC said it, Moses said it, or Paul said it. All of it is GOD talking.

I never said a word about it until the eight days before the election,

Is he implying that closer to the election the impact of his words are diminished? I would think it’s the opposite, but wuddahIknow.
Pete

Being against gay marriage does not make one anti-gay.

Prop 8 simply codified a definition of marriage, and did not preclude institutional arrangements, such as civil unions, providing the substantive rights accorded to married couples.
Miko

It’s always a dangerous thing when people “love” others so much that they feel the need to control them “for their own good.” Sadly, this is fairly mainstream in politics. Marriage laws are perhaps the most egregious example, this is perhaps the dominant position in U.S. law, from bans on drugs, requirements making it difficult to send your children to private schools or home-school them, regulations on what procedures medical insurance must cover (making coverage more expensive and unaffordable for many), etc., etc. Perhaps scariest of all is Obama’s threat to renegotiate NAFTA to include environmental and labor standards: clean water and an eight hour day certainly sound nice, but it takes a certain kind of love to force them on people when economic reality means it’ll lead to their starvation. The problem with all of these is the same as the problem with those who would ban gay marriage: from their narrow minded perspective, gay marriage is inherently wrong and so the loving thing is to ban it; unfortunately, they never bother to look at the issue from the eyes of those that they’re trying to “help” and in the process hurting.
Morgan55

How scary is it that this man is actually taken seriously, but he can’t even count to 4 (0:21 mark).
Brooks

Why is Rick Warren denying he’s anti-gay marriage anyway? Aren’t most bible-thumping Christians typically proud of that?
«bønez_brigade»

“Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”

So, is that part in bold meant as an escape clause, making it OK — and thus not technically “adultery” — for a married man to bone another woman (if sexy-times are the sole intention)? I’m assuming “put away” means “put aside” or “leave” or “sneak away from”, BTW.

——

@Morgan55,
That’s what I’m wondering. Maybe he just has a bad pinky, as it looked to be (possibly) in the act of erecting.
Richard Wade

That’s what I’m wondering. Maybe he just has a bad pinky, as it looked to be (possibly) in the act of erecting.

Maybe that explains it all. He can’t get his pinky erect.
Polly

Fundies feel like they have to protect the rest of us from their god. That’s the whole point of intercessory prayer for conversions of sinners. They’re begging their god to arrange it so that he doesn’t “have to” send their friends and relatives to Hell or smite an entire gay-loving nation like he did to Sodom or Gomorrah.

My wife’s grandmother died recently. A xian from a xian culture. I was shocked to hear that members of her family were WORRIED ABOUT HER SALVATION and praying to their god that she was STILL SAVED even at the end. They feel the need to make sure their god doesn’t throw people into Hell. (their fears were alleviated by dreams interpreted as messages from god that she was indeed saved)
How pathetic.
Julie Marie

those who obviously opposed my viewpoint on the biblical definition or the historical definition of marriage were trying to turn me into an anti-gay activist.

I’m not opposed to his viewpoint on the biblical definition of marriage, or the historical one either. He can have whatever viewpoint he wants to. I’m opposed to the idea that a biblical viewpoint is the basis for civil law.
Buffy

He never told anybody to vote for Proposition 8. He was never against same-sex marriage. We’ve always been at war with Eurasia.
Christina

If you’ve got a problem with allowing 2 gay people to enter into a legal agreement that, in essence, lets them share their stuff, then in my opinion, you’re anti-gay. Excluding gay people from a civil institution the rest of us get to enjoy is discrimination. Marriage is a legal agreement. That’s why the state legally marries people, not the church. If your church doesn’t want to bless a gay marriage, then fine. But the civic, legal realm of life is for all of us.
Jon

Oops, you missed some scriptures!

In the same way, their males also abandoned their natural sexual function toward females and burned with lust toward one another. Males committed indecent acts with males, and received within themselves the appropriate penalty for their perversion. Romans 1:27

Furthermore, because they did not think it worthwhile to keep knowing God fully, God delivered them to degraded minds to perform acts that should not be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, quarreling, deceit, and viciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, haughty, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to their parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Romans 1:28-31

A fool does not find joy in understanding but only in expressing his own opinion. When wickedness comes, contempt also comes, and insult comes along with disgrace. Proverbs 18:2
Another Visitor

The word ‘hypocrisy’ in the title has been misspelt.