Atheist Bus Campaign in… Ottawa! March 12, 2009

Atheist Bus Campaign in… Ottawa!

By Guest Contributor
March 12, 2009

The vote was taken and free speech won out!

The city council in Ottawa voted 13-7 yesterday in favor of having atheist ads on their buses!

The ad is one you’ve seen before — “There’s probably no God, now stop worrying and enjoy your life.” But watch how one opponent removes the “probably” wording and contradicts himself a few times in one statement:

Life Christian Academy principal Mike Karpishka and 40 of his students protested outside city hall yesterday.

“We understand freedom of speech, but we don’t want these ads on the buses,” Karpishka said. “The ads are offensive.

“To say that there is no God — as a Christian, it doesn’t shake my faith,” he said.

Rather, it could sway a non-believer, he said.

Because of the decision, some of the students at the school have said they won’t ride any bus with the ad, something Karpishka said he supports.

“We will continue praying as Christians that this won’t have the effect that we know it will have,” he said.

Then some good your prayers did… (?!?)

I love the last line of the piece:

Initially the Humanist group had planned on only running ads on 10 buses, but since they have received more donation money following the publicity the debate generated, they may be able to buy more.

The more people get offended by the atheist bus ads, the more atheist bus ads we’ll see!

Thank you, positive feedback.

If you’re in contact with them, thank the 13 council members who voted in favor of free speech.

And vote out those who opposed the ads during the next election cycle.

(via Atheism Examiner. Thanks to AxeGrrl for the additional link!)

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  • Great news, another victory for common sense and free speech.

    “We understand freedom of speech, but we don’t want these ads on the buses,” Karpishka said. “The ads are offensive.”

    Translation – “We don’t understand or approve of free speech,” Karpishka said. “The ads are offensive to me so should be banned regardless of what anyone else thinks. I am more important than you.”

  • Benoit

    Yay! I just wrote councillor Alex Cullen to thank him and the rest of the city council. If you live in the Ottawa area, you should do the same.

    It’s one thing to write these folks to try to sway their vote, but now that they’ve done the right thing they deserve a word of appreciation amidst the complaints that they’re inevitably going to get from Karpishka et al.

  • mikespeir

    “…praying as Christians that this won’t have the effect that we know it will have….”

    He didn’t really say that, did he?

  • Good news all round, particularly the increased donations resulting from the publicity.
    Here in Blighty the Christian Party have got their adverts on buses (apparently there is “definitely a god”).

  • mikespeir

    (apparently there is “definitely a god”)

    Dang. Looks like I’ve blown the last five years of my life then.

  • Great news. I’ll have to keep an eye out for them!

  • Richard Wade

    Remember the names of the seven city council members who voted against free speech and keep an eye on them. This is a very obvious issue. It should have been 20 to zero in favor of the ads. Did any of the naysayers make statements trying to justify their decisions?

  • Mike/Brett

    Remember the names of the seven city council members who voted against free speech and keep an eye on them.

    You guys… You see it’s not about free speech! You have no faith in democracy. You will go out and target those who oppose your beliefs.

    REPENT and stop your whining. You will face God on judgment day and will be held accountable.

    One of us is right… I will look for you on that day… See Revelations 20:12 (you guys make an appearance in the Bible).. and I will be free from your blood.

  • Emmers

    “Rather, it could sway a non-believer, he said.”

    How exactly is that swaying…?

  • Mike/Brett

    How exactly is that swaying…

    Consider the danger behind this message… “There probably is no God, so enjoy your life.” Or perhaps it can be worded, “There might not be any God, so ignore His laws and do what you want with your life.” Let’s push that a little further, because I guarantee you, this is where it’s heading… “If there is no God, there is no serious consequence for actions, and no right or wrong anyways.” Pound that message into the heart and mind of a child, who becomes a teenager, who becomes angry with life and the world in general. How many kids are unhappy, fatherless, neglected, feeling unwanted, mad at the world? Imagine if John Lennon was right. Imagine if there was no religion, heaven, or hell… imagine no God to hold anyone to account! No Judge of the Universe? Imagine no God to punish rapists, murderers, corrupt dictators, or child molesters? And sadly, there are people who consider such crimes enjoyable. Follow where I’m going? Imagine a world where there is no justice because there is no God, so why care?! Imagine a world where we are just mistakes, evolved animals without conscience, destined for annihilation. Imagine if we are the end to our own means… if there was no Good, Holy, Righteous, moral, all-powerful being to ensure that justice prevails, that rapists, murders, liars, and theives get what they deserve?! Imagine a world where depraved beings with no purpose can design their own morality, draw their own lines, and subject others to their own depraved concept of right and wrong without any fear of a consequence? That is the extent to which these irresponsible atheists will be responsible for those they lead astray with their message. How many unstable persons will read their message to say “do whatever you find enjoyable and don’t wory about consequences… there’s no one greater than you, no one who has the right to subject you to their laws, rules, and anything that might impede your fun.” This message is an attack on the conscience of society… it says, “you are your own god, rule your own life, do whatever satisfies you!” Now put that message into the heart of a potential rapist, pediophile, school shooter, theif, corrupt politician, the guy who wants to kill your child for his ipod. Think about it people! Who will be to blame, the one who stumbles in the dark, or the one who takes away the light?

    Don’t think so… tell it to those parents in Germany and Alabama.

  • Silly Atheist

    Mike/Brett:
    I agree that we need to think hard about what would happen if God disappeared:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkCuc34hvD4

  • Mr. Troll

    One last thought….

    The vote was taken and free speech won out!

    Can we both agree that this was not the case. The lawyers stepped in and influenced the decision. This was not the will of the people. You can claim a 20-0 decision should have been the result and we can claim the same.

    Who in in charge of the democracy in our country is it the elected officials or the courts?

    Just something to think about regardless on which side of this issue you sit on.

  • mikespeir

    Mike,

    I’d advise you to track this site for a few days: http://mojoey.blogspot.com/ Mojoey makes it his job to expose the people in Christian ministry who rape and kill and whatnot. (It’s easy pickings, I’m afraid.)

    Look through a few pages of his site and then go back and re-read what you just wrote.

  • AxeGrrl

    Mr Troll said:

    Who in in charge of the democracy in our country is it the elected officials or the courts?

    Not sure what you’re referring to….the councillors who voted on the issue are elected officials, representing the people in their constituencies.

  • Steven

    I really hate the fact that placing these advertisements was an issue in the first place. I’m constantly bombarded by religious messages and yet one vaguely-worded message to the contrary on a bus is a cause for lamentation and gnashing of teeth?
    At least a majority of the Ottawa city council members displayed some of the vaunted Canadian common sense and voted in support of freedom of speech.
    Now all I have to do is figure out why someone who is absolutely convinced that God exists would care at all when someone says he “probably doesn’t”. For those folks shouldn’t it be the same as someone saying “there’s probably no gravity”? Faith ends up looking pretty weak if it can’t bear any questioning.

  • Mr. Troll

    mikespeir,

    Thank You I will. I think I know what I will find… and sadly most of what the world calls Christians are really just a bunch of Hypocrites. From my personal experiences and observations – I would say that over 80% ( I think it really closer to 96%) of those “calling” themselves Christians in NORTH AMERICA will go to HELL. You think you have it tough as an atheist… you have no clue what it is like to deal with these religious folk on a religious playing field. Do I think I am right… Well what I think does not matter… It is what the Bible (in context) says and teaches. Today we are living in what the Bible calls an Apostate Church. Many wolves in sheep’s clothing seeking to destroy the True Church of Christ. These wolves are liars and thieves seeking only their personal gain at any cost. Would you believe that some pastors and priests are more Atheistic than you? They just turned it into a profitable business. AMAZING isn’t it.

    Your path is the easy one… let’s just say there probably is no God. Much of what you guys say about Religions is TRUE! This includes what people call the church. But my friend it is NOT HIS CHURCH. Jesus would never allow that to happen to HIS Bride.

    You think you are Hated as an Athiest? I am even More Hated as a TRUE follower of Christ. I have read my Bible and understand it – most Sunday Church goers will end up in HELL.

    Matthew Chaper 7 is a huge eye opener.

    So Why do I engage you guys… Well God said that you are to get on Fire for him (ME) or Cold for Him (YOU GUYS)… at least being cold, we have something to work with. But those who are luke warm (WHAT YOU CALL CHRISTIANS) He will vomit out of his mouth.

    Although we do not see eye to eye – I find it easier to discuss God with Atheist than with RELIGIOUS Luke Warm Christians of the Day.

    I appreciate that you guys can relate and understand this message. You can’t even imagine what the religious sites would do to me.

    PS I am the MIKE from above… but on another computer that says Mr. Troll… long story… i just noticed how it got posted and had a few seconds to edit with this PS = Sorry for any confusion

  • Mr. Troll

    To AxeGrrl:

    Read the news articles… you will see that the lawyers got involved and help guide the decision. Was this a real representation of Democracy or was it just as fake as those playing the Christian game today?

  • Mr. Troll

    Steven,

    Now all I have to do is figure out why someone who is absolutely convinced that God exists would care at all when someone says he “probably doesn’t”.

    Read the Mike/Brett post above… what did you not understand.

    Now read Luke Ch 17:2 – and then Revelations 20:12

    As a Christian I care about your eternal soul and want you to understand that the ads have an eternal spiritual application. If only ONE child stumbles because of these ads… in the millions upon millions of people who will see them around the world… it just takes one for Luke Ch 17:2 to have meaning in your life.

  • Mr. Troll (Mike),

    I’m sorry, but quoting Bible verses at a bunch of atheists and agnostics is probably not a particularly effective strategy. We probably aren’t going to take it seriously. I hope you understand that.

    Many of us are also ex-Christians (as I am). Please be aware that I know the Bible. It’s not that I haven’t been exposed to it — I have. And it strikes me as more human than divine.

    Would a true divinely inspired text contain verses like Numbers 31:18 (NIV)? “but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man”

    What kind of god is that? Certaintly not the omnibenevolent god which most Christians believe in.

    Quoting Bible verses at those who view the text as a loosely compiled byproduct of its time and culture is probably not your best move.

    I encourage Christians to read the Bible. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. People should understand what they’ve been taught to believe, and see if it’s worth their efforts.

  • Matt

    Regarding the comment above about morals requiring god:

    Social behaviors developed in our ancetors long before our conception of “god” did.

    the human ability to collaborate and work together to build family units, then tirbes, then societies, then nations required a basic system of morality.

    And while that system of morality may have been codified by religion (before being codified in law) morality did not require such to exist.

    Society requires morality. Morality does not require god.

  • Mike/Brett

    Telepromter,

    Do you understand Hermeneutics?

    If Yes… Please explain who Numbers 31:18 was written To? Why? When? What is the Context.

    I Quote Bible verses for a reason.

  • Luther Weeks

    There probably are Christians, there are definitely a lot of hypocrites, there is Very Very Very probably no god(s), not even one,

    So, stop worrying about that, enjoy your life and live the way you would would want others to live, look to this life.

  • Mike,

    Please propose a context in which that passage is something you think is okay.

    In fact, please propose a context in which the murderous rampages of the OT as commanded by Yahweh are OK.

    Please propose a context in which killing every first-born Egyptian child is OK, in your opinion.

    Hermeneutics can only go so far.

  • stephanie

    Hahahaha!
    This reads like an article from ‘The Onion.’
    Love it.

    For those so bored they’re banging on the semantics, can anyone please give me the denotation of ‘republic’?

  • mikespeir

    Look, uh, Mr. Troll,

    Whether you realize it or not, you’re talking to a lot of people who used to believe like you do. I taught the Bible. I know what it says.

    Just telling me that a lot of people are hypocrites doesn’t help you. There are Christians who will call you a hypocrite. Who should I believe? Indeed, most of those people on the site I pointed you too would have had any number of Real Christians ™ attest to their being the Real Deal. What you’d like to do is slice off the outliers and insist they don’t count as negative evidence. That’s not quite honest. The bottom line is, Christianity instills nothing into people that guarantees they will be extra moral. You will find no greater incidence of killing and raping, etc., among atheists than you will among Real Christians.

  • Jonsi

    I see where Mr. Troll is coming from. I certainly don’t want people like him to stop believing in god since apparently, you can’t be moral without god. I know us atheists argue otherwise, but Jonah Lehrer argues on his blog Cortex (and in his book “How We Decide”) that morality comes from the evolutionary neuropsychology of caring for babies. That is not possible since we eat babies. Therefore, there must be a god.

  • AxeGrrl

    Mr. Troll said:

    Read the news articles… you will see that the lawyers got involved and help guide the decision. Was this a real representation of Democracy or was it just as fake as those playing the Christian game today?

    Simply pointing out that it would be ‘difficult to justify the rejection of the ads’ if the rejection were challenged legally isn’t ‘guiding the decision’…….it’s merely pointing out how weak the case against allowing the ads would be.

  • Steven

    Mr. Troll says:
    “As a Christian I care about your eternal soul and want you to understand that the ads have an eternal spiritual application. If only ONE child stumbles because of these ads… in the millions upon millions of people who will see them around the world… it just takes one for Luke Ch 17:2 to have meaning in your life.”

    Unfortunately, all of my bibles (including my Grandma’s Welsh one)are at home in the basement but according to the net, Luke 17:2 reads as follows:
    “It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.”

    I’m unsure of the context and really don’t see how it applies to bus ads. Most kids under 6 won’t be able to read it and most 6-year olds won’t understand it. I think it is appalling that some people think it is their duty to teach their children about a loving god who will nevertheless condemn them to eternal torture if they “sin”.
    If I really wanted to offend the little ones I’d frighten them with Bible stories and similar myths.
    As an atheist, I appreciate anyone’s concern about my well-being – we are all on the same journey after all. There’s no need to worry about my soul though since I probably don’t have one and neither does anyone else.

  • Mike/Brett

    Teleprompter,

    I do not think you understand Hermeneutics – since you did not answer the question. However I will give you a context, a very simple one, that I hope you understand. If you can not understand how simple this may be… then I do not expect you to go any deeper.

    This Blog that we are on right now was set up by Mr. Hemant Mehta. As I have been deleted several times – it was clearly pointed out to me that this Blog belongs to him and he pays for it. Every message is on his dime. Therefore, Mr. Hemant has the right to DELETE ME or any message that I post. He even has the right to shut down this entire site… That is his choice… not yours, not mine. We can argue and shake our fist at him and even say that he is a bad person for doing this. Some may even say that he does not exists at all and this site evolved electronically from a random natural selection process of “1”‘s and “0”‘s. You may even have group saying they are A-Hemants. That he really does not exist. Infact I heard a rumor that some group will be taking out bus ads stating that “There probably is no Hemant so relax and enjoy blogging on the internet.” (Ok, a little over the top with the sarcasm – I agree)

    So, why would the Friendly Atheist shut down his own site? WHY? Because it belongs to him… it is his creation. That’s it. If you, Teleprompter, build a bird house and you were happy with it – Do I have the right to come and smash it into tiny little pieces? NO it does not belong to me. But you Teleprompter, if you wanted to smash that bird house into tiny little pieces…who am I to stop you. It belongs to you and you have the freedom to do what I may not ever understand.

    You see we belong to HIM. We are His creation. He can do what He wants. He created everything from nothing. That’s it… that’s the starting point of the Bible to understand the context that we are his creation. You can narrow each passage down and understand what was going on with Gods people at the time.

    Evolution does not fit within the context of the Bible. If we are nothing but random genetic mutations… then God has no right to us and he has no power to stop bad things from happening. In fact regardless of some religious beliefs, evolution is not hermeneutical with scripture. I know I know, there are entire religious sects that disagree- as I have mention in my post above – most of them are going down not up. I do not want to discuss evolution/creation here, but I hope that you understand the context of us being His creation. If we evolved… then there is not point to Jesus and the cross even though you will have many religious groups trying to harmonize the two so that they can keep collecting their rent and salary….um I mean Tithes. What a scam.

    If you are serious and want to dig deeper or perhaps do a Bible study – I would be happy to discuss with you – but not in Mr. Hemant Mehta’s dime.

    If your heart is to hard to look TRUTH square in the face because you can not accept the notion that you belong to him and you are his creation – I understand. One day you will bow your knee to the Truth. After all that is why Jesus came… to Testify to the Truth.

  • Mike/Brett

    Whether you realize it or not, you’re talking to a lot of people who used to believe like you do. I taught the Bible. I know what it says

    Guys,

    I hear you. Since some of you are so well versed in the Bible, let me remind you of the parable of the sower and the seeds. there are 4 groups… 3 of them would consider themselves to be Christians or ex-Christians. THEY ARE NOT! You my friends were deceived and were never really Christians. You played a religious game and lost. You never allowed God’s living word to penetrate deep into your souls, you were never given His gift of the Holy Spirit. Do you think God is surprised? He wrote about false Christians and told his Deciples that they will not understand any of His teaching unless they understood this parable. and here we are proving that he was right.

    I know it is easy for me to point out that Christians are Hypocrites. You will be hard pressed to find Christians here. I even struggles with the way I live my life. North America is one of the hardest places in the world to be a Christian. Hey we use sin to sell Truck tires.. We are swimming in a moral cesspool of unrighteousness. The great Obama with a stroke of a pen will kill millions upon millions of babies making Hitler look like a girl guide leader, yet we will call hail him as a great president.

    YOU WANT REAL CHRISTIANITY… read Fox’s Book of Martyrs, go to China and speak with Christians who are being persecuted. Spend some time in the underground church. Go to Islamic nations and realize that they will torture and kill a six year old because he will not renounce his faith in Jesus Christ. Will you go to those countries and fight for free Speech and be persecuted like the Christians are? WILL YOU? Or is your Atheist belief just a preference. For me Christianity is a conviction.

    It is too bad that some bad people have really twisted things up in North America. But, it is no surprise as the Bible speaks of an Apostate Church. There is a lady in a church I know that is crying to go back to Africa, because she can not find a True Christian Church in Ottawa. She has asked to meet with the pastor but he will not listen. Her kids are turning away from God because Sundays are all about watching Veggie Tales and playing games. This pastor teaches from books written by men and not God. Once in a while a scripture verse id thrown in for good measure. Everyone loves this guy… but what he teaches is not Biblical…. are they Christians? Maybe just a few… my guess is less than 4%. The pastor even told someone that not everyone in their leadership is saved? WHAT!!!!!!! Then you ask why things that are on http://mojoey.blogspot.com/ happen. THEY ARE WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING!!!!

    I am not just calling out the Hypocrisy – I lived it. We are not that different. You see I grew up believing that I was Christian because I was told that I am. I was a good catholic kid… the one day someone told me to pray a prayer and ask Jesus into my heart. I did… and then the guy put his arm around me and said brother welcome to Gods family. For 10 years I live my life believing that I now I was a “Born-Again” Christian. I still enjoyed my sins and knew that God had forgiven me. Many of you probably relate to asking Jesus into your heart. You know what… I can find that anywhere in the Bible? What a load of false teachings and plain old crap. These sincere people who said they cared about me put me an a journey straight to Hell. Some really crappy stuff was happening in the world like 9/11 and the priest molesting kids and some personal stuff. I though I was a Christian I really did, and I was about to throw it all away and join your ranks. BUT… God got a hold of me (You see I can witness to you, but unless the Father draws you near, you will not be converted)I REPENTED and realized the lie I was living. I joined a church and began a very slow study process. I saw many false converts who came and left the church I was in. The pastor rarely spoke about sin and it was all about love (love…love…love). Some would even preach prosperity and have the congregation falsely believe that if they gave more money, they would be blessed.

    Well… I could go on and on. But I think you get the point. I DO NOT BELIEVE that you were ever a Christian. You may think that you were, but if you really examine yourself against the Bible (2 Corinthians 13:5-10) you will find the Truth and the Truth shall set you free.

    Am I perfect, well you guys will tell me I’m not and I agree. Do I still sin…YES but the difference is that I do not go jumping into it, I stubble into it.

    I don’t expect that this will make a whole lot of sense to some of you, but “If” you really thought that you were a Christian, I ask you to think things over. DO NOT LOOK AT NORTH AMERICA as your model of what Christianity is all about. It will drive you insane. Let God be your guide. I know you say He probably does not exist. But let’s look at it this way… when you really understand what Christianity is all about and you cut through all the religious crap and examine what Jesus taught… you will see that we are on the same page. We are not saved because of our “good” works, but rather we do good works because we are saved… because of what Jesus did for us. Historical Christianity built Hospitals for the sick, Shelters for the poor and great Nations to live in. The Humanists are trying to do the same and I applaud you for your efforts. The only difference between TRUE Christians and Good Humanist is where they will spend eternity. I engage you guys, because I CARE… and if you want to play the statistics game… well where are all the other TRUE Christians on this site who care enough about you to discuss salvation. Most of them are too busy surfing the adult sites and then hoping that their Sunday rent check will be enough of an indulgence to satisfy their sins of the week.

    Everything you think and say about RELIGION is true… but realize that CHRISTIANITY is not a religious sect. IT IS GODS PLAN OF SALVATION FOR YOU.

    WHY CHRISTIANITY OVER ANY OTHER RELIGION… If you are really interested then ask… we can dialog further.

    BTW… if at some point any one of you decides to REPENT and trust God… BE VERY CAREFUL – do not just join any church. They good ones are small very small and you need to understand what the Bible says about they way a church needs to operate (Book of acts gives some outlines). It is not a hierarchy with the pastor as boss/CEO. Look for elders who fit the Biblical description. Just because they have a nice building and lots of people does not make them a Christian Church.

    If you know a Christian… print out what I have written in this blog and the others above. After they finish calling me every name in the book… ask them to disprove me using the Bible. If they agree… ask them where they go to church and join them.

    I write as a servant of God and will be held accountable to HIM (Jesus Christ) not to any pastor or religious group.

  • mikespeir

    I get so tired of the “You don’t understand.” I do understand. I don’t agree.

    (sigh)

    Fine, Mike/Brett, you’ve done your duty. Thank you.

  • Mike/Brett

    Steven,

    “It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.”

    YES… this is the verse. Why do you limit the age to six? I know Kids who are 4 and 5 and can read. What about the 7 year old? What about the 50 year old City Councilor who voted “For” this ad to go through. They are the ones who will face His wrath. I am concerned about that. If I wasn’t then my beliefs would really just be Religiosity.

    God hates Sin, but he has given you a way out. The fine can be paid by His son. You either accept it or not… that is your choice and free will. Nothing is being FORCED at you in TRUE Christianity. But I want you to understand sin.

    If you lie to your children… what is the consequence? For the most part nothing. “Mommy. Mommy, please buy me that toy… Sorry Honey I don’t have any money?” Is that the truth or a lie. Its a lie… a little while lie one would say. The consequence of that lie…. NOTHING.

    Lie to your spouse… well maybe a night on the couch will set you straight.

    Lie to your Boss… and you may be out of a Job.

    Lie to your Country… its called Treason and you will spend the rest of your life behind bars.

    Let’s look at murder… Kill a flea or a bug and what? Nothing. Kill a Dog or Cat and you got some problems with the Animal activists and perhaps the Law. Kill a Homeless person or a drug dealer… well it get a little more serious. Kill the President and you’ve got a huge problem.

    Can you just imagine that IF God exists… how much worse the punishment would be? Even our best works are like filthy rages to him.

    HE will have justice. You moral conscience did not evolve… you know right from wrong because it’s God given.. and you will face judgment. I don’t want you to go to Hell, but you will unless someone else steps in for you and pays that fine. When that happens and ONLY when that happens will you ever understand HIS grace. To Sin means to miss the MARK. Which mark? HIS Mark… the 10 Commandments.

    (sigh)

    I will never tire of Him and will continue th good fight so that you do not end up in Hell. Hate me if you want, but I will fight with everything that I have so that you do not perish.

    Mike

  • AnonyMouse

    Mike/Brett,

    I feel for you. I see that you have strayed from the true path of Pastafarianism, and I will pray that you will find your way back to the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the loving embrace of His noodly appendages.

    The Flying Spaghetti Monster hates self-righteous zealots above all else, but if you turn to Him and beg forgiveness for your transgressions, He may yet forgive you and save you from eternal torment in the Vat of Pasta Sauce.

    RAmen.

  • Mike/Brett

    Mey Mr. Mouse,

    I’m sorry I ate Him (Fl–ng Spag–tti M–ster). We no longer utter his full delicious name 🙁

    He once did exist, but no longer does. Went great with AgNostica Whine (I mean wine) and th Great Garlic Toast Man of the ages.

    Now moving from Pastafarianism to SEEFOOD. We SEEFOOD and EAT. YUM YUM!

  • Mike/Brett

    To Hemant Mehta;

    Thank you for your time and space. I think I have made my point as best as I could. I will no longer use up your space, but will continue to read and pray fro you guys.

    If you have a Specific question… ask and I will do my best. If you want to poke fun at all of this.. ok… I’ll refrain from dumb comments… but um.. I really did eat the (Fl–ng Spag–tti M–ster)

  • Mike,

    So your defense of the antics of the OT god, boils down to “well, he’s God, so he can do whatever he wants”.

    Why should I worship such a being?

  • Mike/Brett

    Teleprompter,

    I did not realize God was on Trial here. You were looking for context and I gave it to you. You have still not answered my question regarding the context of that particular verse.

    You are His creation and not some evolved ape. And since HE gave you life he can take it away from you and He will decide if You will Spend eternity in Heaven or Hell.

    All creation declares His Majesty and you sit and shake your fist at him… good luck.

  • AnonyMouse

    Mike/Brett,

    I had no intention of making fun of the situation. I had hoped that by bringing up the subject of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I might put some inkling into you of how incredibly irritating it is for the rest of us when someone like you comes along and tells us how “wrong” we are and tries to convince us to reconvert by repeating your opinions over and over.

    If you prefer, I’ll just say what I wanted to say to begin with: Stick to the facts, or bugger off.

  • Mr. Troll said:

    Read the news articles… you will see that the lawyers got involved and help guide the decision. Was this a real representation of Democracy or was it just as fake as those playing the Christian game today?

    The lawyers advised that if we were to challenge a rejection of the ads under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms that the city would almost certainly lose. Sounds plenty democratic to me.

  • AxeGrrl

    Theo Bromine said:

    The lawyers advised that if we were to challenge a rejection of the ads under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms that the city would almost certainly lose. Sounds plenty democratic to me.

    Alex Cullen, is that you? 🙂

  • Evolution does not fit within the context of the Bible.

    Doesn’t bode well for the Bible, does it?

  • Since Mike mentioned my name above, here’s my account of the proceedings:
    http://thinkingforfree.blogspot.com/2009/03/god-and-city-council.html

  • Mike

    Theo,

    The lawyers advised that if we were to challenge a rejection of the ads under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms that the city would almost certainly lose. Sounds plenty democratic to me.

    Lets look at the Merriam-Webster Definition of Democracy…

    1 a: government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

    DO YOU SEE SEE ANY METION OF LAWYERS OR APPOINTED JUDGES OR COURTS. Come on you are smarter than that. The decision was influenced by the Lawyers. It was not true democracy.

  • Mike

    Mr. Mouse,

    incredibly irritating

    THANK YOU!!! The salt of the world usually is.

    Also it is impossible for you to “reconvert” because you were never a Chrisitan in the 1st place. To be an athiest is to say there is no God… therefore whatever you were before was not Christian because there has to be a God for that to be true. So I will Witness and answer questions and allow the Holy Spirit to convert… that is His job not mine.

  • Steven

    Mike/Brett/Mr. Troll,

    Thanks for your response to my comments regarding your reference to Luke 17:2. It’s painfully clear that our opinions are worlds apart. I would suggest refraining from the use of all caps in your comments because, justified or not, it appears to indicate a rather ah, extreme point of view. Volume is not enough – ideas that are compelling to the logical mind have proof behind them.
    If you really want to test your faith and the strength of your belief examine the bible with a critical eye (if you have yet to do so) and dive into the works of leading atheist writers (Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris).
    In almost 40 years I’ve seen nothing to convince me that God exists and plenty to indicate that he doesn’t.

  • Lance Crossley

    God is either real or not real. When something has a 50% probability nothing can be said by probability either way – yet they are saying There’s probably no …. Wisdom dwelleth not with the wicked.

  • Bacopa

    Too bad there are no commercial ads on busses and rail in Houston. All we got is PSAs encouraging you to get tested for AIDS.

  • AxeGrrl

    Lance Crossley said:

    “When something has a 50% probability nothing can be said by probability either way”

    Where are you getting this ‘50% probability’ statistic?

    You can’t just toss out such assertions without giving some justification for them.

    And what version of ‘God’ are you referring to in your statement?

    When ‘God’ is a conveniently ‘shape-shifting-impossible-to-pigeon-hole’ entity, how can you say anything specific and/or ‘meaningful’ about it?

  • AxeGrrl

    Lance Crossley said:

    they are saying There’s probably no …. Wisdom dwelleth not with the wicked.

    I beg your pardon?

    So, people who have come to the conclusion (usually after much consideration) that there’s “probably no God” are automatically ‘wicked’ and lacking in wisdom?

    Sorry, but you’ve offered nothing to ‘earn’ your dismissive arrogance.

  • AxeGrrl

    Mike said:

    To be an athiest is to say there is no God… therefore whatever you were before was not Christian because there has to be a God for that to be true.

    Uhm, what?

    There ‘has to be a God’ for what to be true?

    Being a believer and then later not being one has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not a ‘God’ exists.

  • Is Mike still asserting his own incorrect definition of atheism?

    To be an athiest is to say there is no God… therefore whatever you were before was not Christian because there has to be a God for that to be true.

    Does this mean every belief that anyone has ever had is also true?

  • Mike/Brett

    From Merriam Webster:

    1archaic : ungodliness , wickedness
    2 a: a disbelief in the existence of deity b: the doctrine that there is no deity

    Therefore, to claim that there is no God today means that your understanding of Him or whatever you “thought” you were when you were parading around as a Christian is incorrect. I will accept that perhaps once you were a Christian and today you just hate God. You know He exists, but you are turning your back on Him and you just don’t care!

    Therefore, you could have been a believer, but now you can not call yourself an atheist. You may call yourself a God-Hater. Fair enough?

  • AxeGrrl

    Mike/Brett said:

    You know He exists, but you are turning your back on Him and you just don’t care!

    Therefore, you could have been a believer, but now you can not call yourself an atheist. You may call yourself a God-Hater. Fair enough?

    Some people ‘believed’ at one point in time and now (usually after much though/consideration on the subject) they don’t.

    You can’t just dismiss that because you’d like to call them a ‘god hater’.

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