What Do I Do At an Anti-Gay Workshop?

Ohhhhh, you should totally do the “act like you don’t know anything” one; just to get the candid responces. That would be hilarious.

I like #4. Hoist them with their own petard.
Also, maybe push a little bit with references to Ted Haggard or such.

Try to pin them down on details, like should lesbians be stoned to death, or only sodomites.

Also, bring shrimp cocktail, mini cheeseburgers or anything else that would violate Leviticus and be grounds for stoning, along with the mis-translated nonsense about “teh gayz”

But recording would be the best. Then publicize it.

I vote for Option 4 – pretending like you don’t know anything. You’re more likely to get honest answers to what they believe and you can throw them off their guard more easily with your “innocent questions” to their responses. As with the previous option, hilarity should ensue.

I don’t think I would be able to stand going to something like that either . It’s more than a bit repulsive.

I personally like number 4 (without recording due to questionable legality). People can say the oddest, vilest, and sometimes most honest things when they think they can mold your opinion to conform to theirs.

Option 4 – at worst, you’ll get it clear from them what, exactly, they think is going on – as crazy as it is likely to be. at best, asking “innocent” questions may make someone think (unlikely, but possible).

Option 3 would make for the best sitcome pilot, though.

Become their friend, then slowly turn them all gay.

Can’t speak on the details (too many to go into, really, and too many possible approaches), but definitely take notes. This is the kind of get-together where they cook up these subtle religious/political memes, which they then slowly and carefully set into motion; kinda like planting seeds and waiting for them to grow.

I mean, don’t you wonder how these stupid stereotypes regarding particular non-Christian groups got started? Christians have been spreading bullshit propaganda since the beginning of the religion; from naming other deities after Christian demons, to spreading lies about specific individuals or groups.

Just seems like the kind of thing you’d want to collect information on, I guess 0_0

I just finished reading the chapter in American Fascists (The Christian Right and the War on America) by Chris Hedges where the author attended one of these. He simply observed and took notes.

If this meeting is anything like the one that Hedges describes in the book, then go and be afraid. Be very afraid.

The above book is a fabulous read, BTW. Highly recommended.

Ok. I’m gay, I deal with this kind of stuff all the time, and I have a LOT of experience arguing with right wingers about gay rights.

1) DO NOT go in thinking you’re going to argue with them unless you’re really prepared in advance, are familiar with the arguments you’re going to hear, are familiar with all their expected rebuttals, etc. They are just as batshit crazy about homosexuality as they are about the existance of Jaayeeeeeeezus, if not moreso, and there is just as much nonsense built up around it. If you try to argue with them without knowing the lore of nonsense they have built up to justify their bigotry, they’ll just react to your argument with another bit of their insanity, their brain will turn off, and you’ll have gotten nowhere.

2) You can not simply argue with their central tenet, that homosexuality is EEEEEEVILLLLLE and so are all HOMOS. If you want to make them see the error of their ways, you have to instead pick apart their arguments piece by piece, detail by detail, and most of all, you have to play with their heads. Direct argument doesn’t work, they have too many defenses against outright rationality, so you have to use arguments designed to screw up their expected thought patterns to force them to think about it. For example: right wingers argue that gay people shouldn’t be allowed to marry because then they might adopt children. So, I point out that gay people can already legally adopt in 48 of the 50 states and like it or not there are plenty of gay people with kids, and that preventing gay people from marrying only forces their children to live with the economic disadvantage of having unmarried parents, and then I ask them why they hate children so much that they would do this to the poor kids. They don’t know how to react at all; it bypasses all of their arguments and forces them to defend themselves for violating their own morals (or, more importantly, what they believe to be their own morals), in this case, for harming children. That brings me to…

3) If you’re going to argue with them, you have to force them to see how their bigotry against gay people violates their other principles, such as in the example above. (Or as I said, violates the principles they believe they believe in.) Basically, this means you have to show them how they’re violating the rules of the bible, not of the secular society we believe in. This may not come naturally to a devoted atheist, but if you know the bible, you can do it. Strategies that can help include forcing them to see that they are judging their neighbor, that they are being cafeteria christians by demanding that people obey only one law from Leviticus while ignoring the rest, that they are bearing false witness with some of the outright lies told about gay people, and that they are casting the first stone by seeking to punish others when they are sinners themselves. And if it’s a woman, you can point out to her that the bible says that she may not presume to teach anything to a man, so she’s clearly not a believer in the bible since she presumes to tell gay men how to live their lives. Oh, and if they call gay people “homos” or “faggots” or other names, you can shame them by pointing out that they are clearly not “loving their neighbor”, that the names they use make it clear that they are hateful and judgmental and “unchristian”. Force them to see that they are being hypocritical, and you will have found the gap in their armor.

4) Do not expect any visible wins on your part if you argue with them. These things take time. Much like the process of a theist slowly beginning to have doubts and eventually realizing their religion is a sham, they will have to slowly develop doubts about what their religion tells them about gay people, let light dawn slowly over marble head, and eventually come to realize that they’ve been a bigot and have to change. You can help set them on that road. You won’t get them to the destination in one sitting.

5) If you decide to go with the “record their responses” route, make sure to ask them about things like how many gay people they know, how many gay friends they have, and what their beliefs about gay people are. You’re sure to get some, uh, interesting results.

6) There is one other reason for arguing with them, which is to put on an exhibition for undecided people. By putting on a rational argument and getting the bigots to show that they have nothing to stand on but bigotry, you can essentially railroad the bigots into making themselves look so bad that it will turn people away from their side. But, this strategy will not convince the bigots of anything because they won’t respond to rationality, and it’s pointless if you don’t have an audience of undecided observers.

If you’re going to go, you should have a good disguise…go to the drama dept. at school and see if they have a big fuzzy mustache you can borrow. It might cover your mouth when you can’t keep yourself from cracking up at the absurdity of their arguments.

I’d say none of the above. Rather, eat lots of beans during the day and fart away throughout the meeting. After all, what difference would it make distinguishing your fart from their blather?

I would combine #4 and #2. Pretend to know nothing of the issue and let them explain the problem. You, the curious new guy, just poke holes in their explanations with the pretense that “i still don’t see the problem” They will continue to explain, and you can continue to point out why that doesn’t make sense to you.

This is my general method of reconstructing peoples points of view. It has a way of frustrating the hell out of people who have no real reason to think the things they do.

Inevitably religion will come up. Someone will say “The bible says…”. To these people you can either simply point out your not Christian, and respond “whats that got to do with gay activists?” when they ask your religion (this could change the subject); or you can simply (to not lose them) say thats not the what you believe god wants, or something like that just to avoid pointing out your not Christian(since that might change the subject) while expressing a different Christian outlook,.. avoid details as irrelevant to keep on topic.

I also like the idea above..
“flirt with the men”

Hey, sounds like fun! Afterward we can go for ice cream and then hit a Clan meeting!

If you go, I recommend either option 1 or 4. You aren’t going to change anyone’s mind at the meeting and the very fact of your disagreement will be seen as trying to be disruptive instead of objective.

I would start by lurking (being silent and observant). I think I would leave if I heard anything resembling hate speech or open bigotry.

It sounds fascinating, but also depressing. I would be curious to know if it is hate or ignorance that drives an individual to oppose gay rights – civil rights.

If it be ignorance, education is possible; if it be hate, they are lost.

Make out with a dude.

Be careful about surreptitious recording. In some states (like California), that sort of thing is potentially illegal and use of the recording would be admission that you have committed a crime, or could subject you to civil liability.

Now, the defense argument is that it is a meeting to which the public was invited, and remarks made at the meeting were not intended by anyone to be private. And that defense would win in a lot of courts and in a lot of states. But the availability of a good defense is not the same thing as not being sued in the first place.

I really like option 4. you need to ask questions like, “well if god created everything, why would he allow homosexuals to create him, afterall after each day of creation he finished and saw that it was good, genesis says so. How could there be homosexuals if they weren’t part of creation and god’s handiwork?”

Kill them with bible references. That’s always good.

#4! Asking questions is good. The more you can make them stop and think, the greater chance that one of these times they’ll actually think themselves outside of the little compartmentalized box in their minds.

Anything that ends with the paranthetical phrase “(Hilarity will ensue)” gets my vote.

Just beware of option Zero, where you run into the parents of a student or two.

I think you should dress smartly, act over-the-top flaming, but loudly bring up every stereo typical amazingly bigoted queer bashing thing you can. Nothing says satire like a ferry prancing around screaming about the pillow biters ruining society through de-masculation.

Everyone there will be a closeted gay, so I would take note of all of their names and phone numbers and have continuous sex for the next two years.

I favor (3), if it really will cause hilarity to ensue. Though I think (4) could do that too.

Don’t go in and attempt to debate them. There’s no getting through to people like them. Instead pretend to be a blank slate and take in everything they say, and ask for any literature they have to offer. I’m very interested in what propaganda they’re spreading. Then come back and fill us in – all the dirty details.

The best defense we have against them is to know what they’re up to.

I’m disappointed that you even have to ask.

The only correct course is to go after them with the same sort of zeal they have when going after the so-called gay agenda.

My2Sense nailed it.

option four. innocent and confused is always the way to go.

A combination of #1 and #4, please.

Tom: Thanks so much for your well-reasoned, articulate comments. I live in California, where Kenneth Starr is trying to invalidate the 18,000 gay marriages that took place last year. I appreciate your giving me some much-needed responses to use in discussions with my less-liberal acquaintances. If you have additional suggestions, please post them here. I am learning a lot from you–again, thank you!

This is probably the hardest option, but the most productive. Go with, if not an open mind, an inquiring mind. Strive to find out where your own strawman of their position is.

After reading the statement from the Vatican today about the “atheist” stance that evolution proves there is no god,(ack, giant strawman hurts my brain) my conclusion is that the only way we move forward is to argue against the real positions, not red herrings or outlying crazy folks or our misunderstanding of their beliefs.

Find their best arguments from their most reasonable people in spite of how distasteful it may be. You have to assume that at least a few of them aren’t complete idiots and can at least present an interesting position.

Or go and flirt with guys. 🙂

Go in drag!