They Know Why Atheists Reject Christianity

Christian apologist Frank Turek relates the story of his apologist friend David.

David was giving a presentation “refuting” the New Atheists last week. After it was over, a young man came up to him to discuss the talk:

“I once was a Christian, but now I’m an agnostic, and I don’t think you should be doing what you’re doing.”

“What do you mean?” David asked.

“I don’t think you should be giving arguments against atheists,” the young man said. “Jesus told us to love, and it’s not loving what you’re doing.”

David said, “No, that’s not right. Jesus came with both love and tuth. Love without truth is a swampy, borderless mess. Truth is necessary. In fact, it’s unloving to keep truth from people, especially if that truth has eternal consequences.”

…

But the young man would have none of it. Without acknowledging David’s point, he immediately brought up another objection to Christianity. David succinctly answered that one too, but again the kid seemed uninterested. He fired a couple of more objections at David, who began to suspect something else was up — something I’ve noticed as well.

You can guess where this is going. David and Turek are going to tell us why this man was so insistent on trying to point out the problems with Christianity.

Can you guess the reason?

Take a guess.

.
.
.

Alright. Let’s see if you’re right.

… after the kid fired off another objection, David decided to end the charade and cut right to the heart. He said, “You’re raising all of these objections because you’re sleeping with your girlfriend. Am I right?”

All the blood drained from the kid’s face. He was caught. He just stood there speechless. He was rejecting God because he didn’t like God’s morality, and he was disguising it with alleged intellectual objections.

Ooooooooh, snap! David got him good!

That’s why all of you hate Jesus. You’re too busy fornicating to pick up a damn Bible. Maybe if you put on some pants, you could accept God into your lives.

Remember *that* the next time you question a Christian’s beliefs.

Did it occur to them that the kid remained speechless because the accusation was completely unwarranted?

I mean, we all know atheists are evil homosexuals, anyway…

(via CrossExamined Blog)

WappingPsycho

As an evil homosexual atheist, I’d like to add.. nothing. I just enjoyed typing that phrase. It may, in fact, become my email signature.

(Would it be over the top if I added “Baby Eater” in there somewhere?…)
Mike Haubrich, FCD

Hey, I am only doing homosexuality for anti-Lent. Once that is over, I will go back to being straight so I can get rejected by women again.

(Lately I have had plenty of time to read The Bible. Wink wink, nudge nudge.)
grazatt

the guy looks like a douche
http://www.outreach.com/events/DetailPage.aspx?Ne=135+147+138&N=165+137&No=60&R=100023
Paul

But what if I’m sleeping with my girlfriend yet still claim to believe in Jesus? WHAT NOW?
Leanstrum

Frank Turek debated Christopher Hitchens a while ago. God, what a waste of time that was, but not just because Turek is a moron. Hitchens was…not on form that day (glug glug) and really wasn’t addressing a lot of Turek’s arguments – no matter how idiotic they were. Turek was getting rather irritated by this, and for once I felt his frustration. Quite a disappointing one.

Anyone else see it?
Erik

You know, the first part he has a point about the necessity of debating truth. I disagree with the student who wanted to silence debate; dialogue on what we take to be true is forever necessary.

However he pretty much lost all credibility when he accused the student of breaking a moral code he doesn’t even claim as his own.

Love and truth…I think we know which one this guy cares more about…
Eric

I pretty much always know where those stories are going. I really hope someday someone asks me that so I can say “Nope, I’m sleeping with as many random people of both sexes as I can. Which is roughly zero. Now back to our discussion.”
Derek

I think the apologist is, in a sense, correct in this case. He’s sleeping with his girlfriend because “no sex before marriage” is a silly rule. In that sense, perhaps he is rejecting Christianity, or at least one aspect of it, so he can engage in a pleasurable activity with a clear conscience.

Is that immature? If one would say yes, I have to ask why. If sex outside of marriage is not immoral, then there can be no judgment on what actions a person chooses to engage in consensually and in private. If it’s immature because it’s immoral, then what of people who are raised in faiths that don’t subscribe to this brand of “morality”?. If a person’s maturity is not linked to his propensity to engage in actions that may or may not be considered immoral, I then must ask on what grounds this standard of maturity is built.

Following what he considers to be logic, we can therefore assume that everyone of every religion outside Christianity is in conscious rejection of it because they’re afraid of being found guilty of their sins! How much more presumptuous and arrogant could one possibly get?

If the kid had responded with this, he could have turned the argument on its head. He could have walked out of there with some dignity.

This story leaves out essential details. I’m sure the apologist was ready with all the stock responses and just finally managed to toss out one that caught the kid off guard. But it’s portrayed in such a way as to try and assure the reader that “rejecting Christianity is childish, all objections can be answered, and people only do it to escape guilt.”

Of course, some of us, religious or otherwise, know the difference between being good people and simply following a list of arbitrary regulations in order to make some infinite yet completely invisible deity happy.
James

Well, you know what they say: adulterers will not inherit the kingdom of God . . .
ZackFord

Evil homosexual? Guilty as charged.
grazatt

Frank Turek debated Christopher Hitchens a while ago. God, what a waste of time that was, but not just because Turek is a moron. Hitchens was…not on form that day (glug glug) and really wasn’t addressing a lot of Turek’s arguments – no matter how idiotic they were.

What were his arguments?
Tony Boling

To Derek…

I’m pretty sure this is all completely made up like all of those personal stories they tell at church services.
Transplanted Lawyer

Here, a counter-attack was warranted:

“Am I sleeping with my girlfriend? So what if I am? I eat shrimp, and I bet you do, too. But Jesus specifically said he was leaving all of the laws of the old testament in place, even the dietary restrictions. So explain how you can eat shrimp and still follow Jesus’ teachings without picking and choosing just the ones you like. Then tell me why you picked discriminating against gay people as one of the teachings that you actually like (especially when Jesus himself never said a word about gays).”

My point is, when confronting an apologist, don’t be put on the defensive with a personal attack.
Alex Malecki

A running gag between myself and a friend hit upon the notion of me being an immoral homosexual fornicator because I’m an Atheist. It’s all in good fun of couirse, nothing like this dimwit who seems to believe that Atheists choose Atheism purely because they want to commit acts Christians consider immoral.
llewelly

“You’re raising all of these objections because you’re sleeping with your girlfriend. Am I right?”

Haha! When I was in college I had a fellow student hit me with this one. Ironically, same character two days before had been going on and on about how I would never have a girlfriend because I was an atheist. I started off with: “Since sex is a natural part of a healthy romantic relationship, sex is a perfectly valid reason to reject Christianity. But just yesterday, you said …”

In any case – christians, however devout, are every bit as likely to fuck their SOs as atheists, satanists, or what have you.
Jason R

ahh the old axiom. If you “don’t” believe in ____insert name of generic Diety here__ then you are just trying to hide from your sins.
Lauren

I’m an atheist because I don’t believe in the existence of deity. I also do not agree with the tenets of the major religions, but those are separate reasons. Not because I had sex before I was married, not because I like to wear pants, not because I eat shellfish or have worked on the sabbath. No, Christianity simply doesn’t make sense to me.
I suspect, too, that this story is mostly made up to prove a point and has little to do with reality -much like most in religions.
Roy

I met Mr. Turek when he was at my University for a debate with Christopher Hitchens. While he is a very nice man, his arguments leave something to be desired and are rather basic. Still, this is really quite strange…
AnonyMouse

That reminds me of something that happened yesterday…

I found this video: “10 Questions every atheist must answer”. It was a pretty good video; the guy had some questions that really made me think for a bit. But after a few minutes deliberating on each question, I was able to send him a suitable answer.

A few hours later, he wrote a reply:

real cute. you trying to convince me or yourself on this.

Apparently I had made the fatal assumption of assuming that since he was challenging my beliefs on intellectual grounds, he was interested in hearing my intellectual rebuttal. But no. He is of the firm belief that everyone who rejects God does so because they do not want to believe in a God. He even threw in the phrase “preconceived notion”. (I SO badly wanted to tell him that he should get over his preconceived notion that a God exists before he looks at the evidence!)

It wasn’t a total loss, though. I was able to really think through some of the things I believe and figure out why I believe them, so it was a good intellectual workout. And since I have answered every question on his list, my conscience is clear.
Polly

This sounds like the anthropomorphisizing of a strawman. While I don’t know what actually happened, I do know that Xians are into bullshit anecdotes to make their points.

Whether it REALLY happened or not, much like their holy book, is beside the point.
Mathew Wilder

I wish that fucktard could explain to me why I don’t have a girlfriend or even a casual sex partner, if pre-marital sex is the reason I’m an atheist. I mean shit, I don’t even look at porn or jerk-off any more because it’s so fucking lonely.

You know what I do with my time asshole? I read web comics and look at lolcats late into the night. I am so freakin’ immoral it just blows my mind.

Jesus Christ on a stick I get sick of that “argument.”
Justin jm

David said, “No, that’s not right. Jesus came with both love and tuth. Love without truth is a swampy, borderless mess. Truth is necessary. In fact, it’s unloving to keep truth from people, especially if that truth has eternal consequences.”

Is this truth, (as in backed up with facts) or the capitalized Truth (with a little trademark sign after it)?

I’d guess the latter, since Mr. Turek made that lucky shot in the dark.

All the blood drained from the kid’s face. He was caught. He just stood there speechless. He was rejecting God because he didn’t like God’s morality, and he was disguising it with alleged intellectual objections.

I’d bet that the kid’s morality was better than that of the Old Testament God.
ollie

Dang, I really wish it were true that atheists were that way because we were having lots of sex. 🙂
Margaret Y.

Okay, I totally did not see that one coming. Did. Not.

Obviously I haven’t been hanging around stupid people enough.
Tim D.

Frank Turek debated Christopher Hitchens a while ago. God, what a waste of time that was, but not just because Turek is a moron. Hitchens was…not on form that day (glug glug) and really wasn’t addressing a lot of Turek’s arguments – no matter how idiotic they were. Turek was getting rather irritated by this, and for once I felt his frustration. Quite a disappointing one.

Anyone else see it?

Actually, yeah; I’ve been frequenting that guy’s blog ever since Hemant first linked to it some eight months ago; I’m the poster “Tim D.” over that way.

The link to the debate (it’s about 2 hours!) is here:

http://www.crossexamined.org/blog/?p=85
Iason Ouabache

Funnier ending would have had the young man hold up his left hand to show Frank his wedding band.

And yeah, I always assume that these little “I was talking to a young person after a service” anecdotes are BS. I think Thunderf00t did a video on one of those stories recently. The guy changed the details depending on who the audience was.
JohnFrost

Following what he considers to be logic, we can therefore assume that everyone of every religion outside Christianity is in conscious rejection of it because they’re afraid of being found guilty of their sins! How much more presumptuous and arrogant could one possibly get?

Uh, yeah, that’s exactly what most of those fundamentalists believe. It’s really quite infuriating.
hoverFrog

Hang on. I think he’s onto something with this

“You’re raising all of these objections because you’re sleeping with your girlfriend. Am I right?”

not because he considers atheism to be a hotbed of immoral behaviour but because atheism makes you more attractive. No, no. Think about it.

1. You reject religious arguments.
2. You get to make the beast with two back more often than religious people.
3. Therefore atheism makes you sexy.

I don’t believe in Zeus either. Gimme some sugar, baby.
Richard Wade

Turek’s story smells like a complete lie or at best a highly altered retelling of an actual conversation. I’ve heard so many of these stories where theists claim they triumphed over an atheist in some alleged discussion without witnesses that they are falling into familiar categories. In most of them, the “point” that is supposed to have defeated the atheist is so lame, so pat, so fallacious that a junior high school student could see through it. These stories are starting to be so repetitive they’re resembling children’s Bible stories. “Ooh Daddy tell me the story again about how the Brave Christian used the Straw Man argument to save the Lost Atheist!”

Do they just sit around dreaming these things up? I could do that:

An apologist tells me he’s secretly an atheist but he would be ruined if he came out.

A creationist argues with me about evolution, but when I show him a fossil and explain radiometric dating in simple, logical terms, he blanches white and acknowledges the Bible is a complete fiction.

A preacher just touches my copy of The God Delusion and suddenly realizes he’s gay, drops down on his knees (only to thank me) and then rushes off to find a boyfriend.

I witness the deathbed confession of a famous evangelical, and he says he knows there is no god and regrets wasting his life and misleading people. Nobody else is there to hear it, and I have no proof that I was there, but of course I wouldn’t lie.

Anybody can make this crap up. It’s like junk food for junk minds.
grazatt

Richard, don’t these people belive that it is a sin to lie? Why dosen’t that stop them?
ThatOtherGuy

“So, uh, this friend of mine named, uh… David… who exists… he’s, um, he’s really… real, and he, uh…”

Yeah, you can tell the kid must not have been much of an atheist. Nobody who’s not a religious nut-job would think one iota about sleeping with their girlfriend. All no-sex-before-marriage gets you is a lousy honeymoon.
Siamang

I like how having sex is like the WORST thing he could think of.

Says much more about him than it does about the (imaginary, straw) agnostic.

Bad is good and good is bad to these people.

Memo to Christianists: Please continue to spread the meme that religion=no sex. You’re doing our work for us!
Derek

Richard, don’t these people belive that it is a sin to lie? Why dosen’t that stop them?

Because Jesus told lies—those parables didn’t actually happen, you know—and Jesus never sinned, so lying to prove a point is obviously acceptable.

God Bible-based rationalization is fun. No wonder they do it so much.
Tim D.

Well, Turek is somewhat famous for his embellishments. Go to the topic on his blog about the Hitchens-Turek Debate (not the one with the video), and he makes a comment about someone who “apologized for being an atheist!”

That same atheist came onto Turek’s blog to correct him/herself by saying that he/she had not apologized for being an atheist, but rather on behalf of Hitchens, whose arguments he/she felt did not accurately represent the full scope of atheism.

I’d say it’s probably at worst a flat-out lie, and at best a gross exaggeration.
Richard Wade

Richard, don’t these people belive that it is a sin to lie? Why dosen’t that stop them?

Religion is a business. The higher up people are in the business hierarchy, the more likely they are to know it’s nothing but a business and the more willing they are to lie to further the business.

I’ve heard many ordinary Christians, the “consumers” of the business repeat these phony sounding stories, convinced they’re true, but I haven’t yet heard one claiming they were the Christian actually in the story. No, the lies are told by the ones who make a living in the business, and they are spread by their childish, naive customers who have been raised to believe and repeat what they hear without question.
Buffy

They’re so lame when they claim atheists don’t believe because they don’t want to bow to god’s morality. They can’t fathom that we simply don’t believe in their imaginary friend, or anybody else’s for that matter. They always have to pretend we’re bratty children on a bender or criminals trying to evade The Law. Anything so they can maintain their feelings of smug superiority.
Richard Wade

They’re so lame when they claim atheists don’t believe because they don’t want to bow to god’s morality. They can’t fathom that we simply don’t believe in their imaginary friend, or anybody else’s for that matter.

Exactly. The next time one of them hands me this crap I’m going to tell them the only reason they don’t believe in Santa Claus is because they want to be naughty.
Wes

Turek’s books I Don’t Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist is absolutely loaded with these cooked-up anecdotes. As an earlier commenter said, this is junk reading for junk minds. He knows he’s misrepresenting atheists. He knows these stories are made up. And he doesn’t care, because we’re not his target audience. The people who pay his bills—unthinking fundamentalists looking for a cheap feel-good, ego-boosting story—are his real audience.
Bleatmop

Evil homosexuals??? I thought we were all devil worshiping drug addicts?? Bleat is confused.
Dread Polack

Yeah, like Mathew Wilder, above, I WISH that was the reason I reject god. Unlike Mathew, (and the song “Longview” by Green Day), masturbation hasn’t lost it’s fun yet.
Indigo

So…when I was an atheist virgin, who met another atheist virgin, and spent six months with him before deciding that I really did want to have sex with him…this was what, retroactive? The effects of that decision boomeranged back to when I was fifteen and knocked the god-belief out of me?
Louren

I trully recommend this book to any reader. This book is both contriversal and thought provoking. An Atheist Guide to God written by Sofia O.Y. Jones is truly a great read. This book draws you in and does not let go. After reading this book, you’ll have a different outlook on life. Don’t let the title fool you, its not a book that tells you what to believe. This book is about a journey of a woman who finds her path. She was an Atheist.
lunalelle

Man, I wish I was fornicating right now and that was why I rejected God.
Twin-Skies

Howdy. I’m a regular visitor at Pharyngula, and I chanced upon this fascinating blog.

Ha! Fat chance of that questioning leaving me stunned!

I mean, how does one sleep with hentai manga?

…

I think I’ve said too much…
Twin-Skies

Seriously though, I would be struck dumb at such a question too, but moreso at the shock that the speaker had the audacity (or is it stupidity) to make that baseless assumption.
Tim D.

Yeah, like Mathew Wilder, above, I WISH that was the reason I reject god. Unlike Mathew, (and the song “Longview” by Green Day), masturbation hasn’t lost it’s fun yet.

Green Day reference FTW!!
Steven Carr

I always wonder about those Christian teenagers masturbating when they know that their god is in the room with them , watching them masturbate.

They would never masturbate in front of their parents, but they do masturbate in front of their god.

That is because they don’t really believe in an omnipresent god.
Derek

That is because they don’t really believe in an omnipresent god.

Or because God doesn’t have a history of accidentally walking in and going OH MY GOD JIMMY WHAT ARE YOU DOING??!!??!!!!!!!!
Mathew Wilder

Give it time Dread Pollack, give it time.
Rose

I’m tired of Christians assuming that I have ever had anything to do with Christianity at all.
—

I always wonder about those Christian teenagers masturbating when they know that their god is in the room with them , watching them masturbate.

lol I always thought that was rather disturbing!
Progressive Christian

The Bible does not say that sex before marriage is forbiddon! The word fornication which Christians use as a word for sex outside marriage only means pagan temple prostitution – read Paul in Corinthians when he uses the word pornea, he is clearly reffering to pagan temple prostitution and nothing else! Also read Leviticus chapter 18 it is supposed to be a comprehensive list of prohibited sexual acts yet sex outside marriage doesn’t even get a mention.