Tim Tebow’s Eyes Say John 3:16 January 8, 2009

Tim Tebow’s Eyes Say John 3:16

If you saw the BCS Championship game tonight between the Florida Gators and the Oklahoma Sooners, no doubt you caught a glimpse of Florida quarterback Tim Tebow and the black strips under his eyes with the phrasing John 3:16.


It’s not a surprise he would want to do that — Tebow’s never held back his Christian faith… and if you want to preach, why not go after a national viewing audience, right?

Amazing how lenient the NCAA is about things like that…

It’s not the first time Tebow’s done this either. He’s gone on the field before with Phil 4:13 written under his eyes, too:


At the rate he’s going, we’ll be seeing this video game cover shortly:


William Lobdell — author of Losing My Religion: How I Lost My Faith Reporting on Religion in America-and Found Unexpected Peaceraises a great point:

… I have to wonder if his coaches or NCAA officials would allow him to have “There Is” “No God” written on his eye black below his right and left eyes…

There’s no way he would’ve been allowed onto that field with that message.


Lobdell thinks those personal touches will soon be banned.

Let’s hope he’s right.

(Thanks to Joe for the link!)

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  • Diagoras

    John, meet me at 3:16

  • I don’t know, I suspect the average person will not instantly convert to Christianity based on seeing a quick flash of some numbers. I don’t particularly feel threatened by it.

    He does not represent the government nor is in in a position of authority over anyone else, so I don’t particularly care what he does. It’s like wearing a cross – it’s a personal choice that impacts no one else, so why get all worked up about it? It’s silly, I don’t agree with him, but I am not about to start condoning censorship.

  • anonymouse

    I don’t think it’s a big deal. I do think it’s kind of a silly place to bring up Jesus and all that. I also think it’s selfish to pray about sports like a lot of people do.

  • teencollegestudent

    CheerfulAtheist, I appreciate your stand against censorship. I believe that if someone wants to say “There is ‘No God'” or say “The Lord is my Saviour” then they should have that right. Tim Tebow is not the property of the University of Florida, discrediting any church/state debate, and the NCAA should not ban players from expressing religious, political, or cultural views. If a football player wanted to quote Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, or the Koran, then they should be allowed to. I am highly supportive of Tebow’s openness about his religion. If he truly believes that salvation only comes through the Lord, then it makes sense that Tebow would want to spread it.

  • Jasen777

    I am surprised the uniform police haven’t cracked down on it. It would never be allowed in the pros.

  • Brent

    Tim is probably wearing that message on his face as a means of self motivation and self faith, just as one would wear a cross around the neck.
    and of course if a few people are saved by the word of jesus christ the better

  • Andrew

    there is never a silly place to bring Jesus up, many christian athletes know that God has given them a special talent and they use that talent to glorify him, I’d say Tebow is playing his heart out for his team, his fans, but most importantly the God who gave him the abilities, as far as the the actual eye black goes, i think cheerful atheist said it best with his/her cross comment, he is expressing his faith in his own way that shouldn’t offend anyone else. Thank you.

  • Ubi Dubius

    The problem isn’t that Mr. Tebow is allowed to speak with his eye shadow, it’s the probable reaction to a similar atheist message. The coach or the school or the NCAA would not allow it. However, Hemant (and I) only assume that would happen. What we need is a test case. Any atheist athletes out there?

  • ubi dubius

    I just read today’s Washington Post sports section. It had many pictures of the title game, including many Florida players. There was not one picture of Tim Tebow. I wonder if this is because of the Biblical message? It would be nice.

  • John 3:16 is a bit disturbing when you think about it. You have this supposedly omnipotent deity who can create the entire universe and all life in only 6 days just by talking it into existence. Yet, in order to provide human beings with everlasting life (even though we still die) he has to torture and kill his own son (who is also him) in a particularly brutal and violent fashion. What sort of sick God is this who creates these convoluted solutions to problems of his own devising?

    Still if it helps some Floridian footballer to achieve greater confidence in his game or to intimidate his opponents then who am I to judge?

    As for Philippians 4:13 I am again concerned that players don’t seem to realise how much of an investment their trainers and supporters put in them. If Tim really can “do all things” then why waste his time with an entertainment, why not cure cancer or Aids or feed the world’s starving? Is it because he is playing to his strengths that are assisted by a plethora of able helpers and Jesus is only a factor in building and maintaining his confidence? I think it is.

    I find myself increasingly intolerant of public displays of faith the more I see them. Whatever happened to faith in a personal God?

  • hoverDog


    youre silly.

  • mikespeir

    Well, good for John. If anybody tells him he can’t do it, I hope he’ll send them my way so I can set them straight.

    And, no, he probably wouldn’t get away with displaying an atheistic message. That’s because the persecuted Christian majority…uh, actually I’m not sure just how that works.

  • JT
  • JM

    I do not see the offense here. I could understand if he had the actual words of the verse written on his face, but displaying the reference in which to find the words, atleast to me, does not seem offensive. If an Islamic player had a page number in the Koran on his face I wouldnt be bothered either. Even still if an atheist had a chapter and page number of Darwin’s “Origin of Species” I would not be offended. We should be cautious and want to preserve our right of Freedom of Speech, even if we do not always agree.

  • Vincent

    Would be nice to see a test case, but I really have no problem with it.

    What I foresee happening though is other messages being put there.
    Probably will start with “hi mom” and move on to “betty sue” (or other gf names) then maybe favorite bands like “led zepplin”
    and it will all come to a crashing halt when someone puts “fxxk you”.

    kind of like when touchdown dances got out of hand and got banned

  • Hank

    Don’t you have better things to think about? So what if someone wants to show his faith? Not long ago, before the 12% of the population’s atheists decided to team up with the ACLU and wrestle for control through the courts, it wasn’t a big deal. Why is it that people with no faith have an issue with those that do? If your life is that miserable you probably need faith.

    Hoverfrog — you need help and clearly have a focus issue, among others I’m sure
    The vast majority of the people in this country have no issue with this. Last time I checked the U.S. was still a democracy.

  • TXatheist

    Yeah, after the UT/OSU game the qb McCoy thanked his lord and savior jc. I was thinking we got robbed to some extent on not being in the championship game and wondered if he blamed jc for losing to Texas Tech which caused UT to miss the championship game. I doubt it as Michael Shermer says, they count the “hits” and ignore the misses when it’s about their god.

  • Vballboy60

    It is best if religion is practiced privately and the sport remains secular, focus on the game not the advertising or p[ropoganda or whatever.

    You do make a good point with the “There is”, “No God” alternative. It seems that the extreme Christians recently were outraged at private billboard space on buses in the US and now in England, where athiest messages are posted.

    It’s better for everyone involved if the advertising is left out of the public arena.

  • trey

    Live and let live. Tolerance…

  • Uh, my guess is that atheists are not that well represented among football players, and ESPECIALLY among football coaches. 🙂

    In all honesty, those who care most about spreading reason would be far more likely to be found in the science lab.

    Besides: what if Tebow got hurt in a play? No one would think anything. But if a QB with an atheist message (how could you code it to fit under the eyes anyway?) were to get hurt, the woos ’round the country would be exclaiming “see, that is our god, getting him for that”

    The bigger problem, as I see it, is that genetically gifted mesomorphs are considered role models because they are big, stong and can run fast.

    Who is really more important anyway? The athlete or the person who chips in on a cure for a disease? (yes, I know about the Florida State player who is a Rhodes scholar; there are exceptions)

  • I think it’s OK because Tebow backs up his preaching by proving that he is God. 🙂 Go Gators!

  • At the end of the game, when asked if he would return to UF for his senior year, or go to the NFL and make Thunderbucks, his reply went something like this:

    “I don’t know… but I’d like to thank my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ [for helping us beat those panty-waist Sooners]”

    OK, the bracketed part is my embellishment, but you get the point.

  • Ben

    Our country gives us the rights to practice our religion, if you’re Muslim or Hindu, you can express your Faith as well. Why would you want to take away that freedom, do you want to take away Freedom of Speech as well? Get this one right my liberal friends….don’t get upset because you see something on TV that you don’t agree with. Freedom is what makes this country great!

  • stogoe

    Meh. It’s tribal warpaint; I don’t have a problem with people adorning themselves with spells and magic symbols to protect them during battle (real or ritualized). It’s useless and silly, but they can go ahead and do it if they want.

    I am slightly concerned that a secular or non-theist message would cause an unfounded outrage, but then again I’d tend to look askance at an atheist athlete who felt it necessary to paint on a magic spell of atheistical protection.

  • It’s called freedom of speech. And it applies to the majority as well, not just people who hate God. If you don’t like it, tough. There is plenty of stuff that is shown on TV that I don’t agree with. Get over yourselves. Seriously, I think people who complain about little stuff like this should actually get out and do something good for the community instead of wasting your time bitching. (but since you moderate your comments on this blog, this will probably never be shown. How’s that for freedom? prove me wrong.)

  • Wade

    hoverFrog – Explain to me how you think everything got here. Then explian to me what made that happen and then how all of it got together and made everthing. Tell me why it rains? Not how… why. Did some star crash into the ocean and send up little particles of water and they happen to fall from the sky. Now tell me how that happened and on and on. Science can only prove so much. There has to be a beginging point and anything, example God, that can ceate itself can certainly create us and everything we see. There is more to life than science. I hope you all understand this before it’s to late. God did not intend for life to be this way but he gave us our freedom and Adam and Eve chose not to obey the rules so life was no longer perfect. Then God allowed sacrifices and we got worse and worse and finally He decided the only way we would be saved was through Himself. So he recreates himself as a human, dies in order to save everyone, even you, and only asks that they believe in salvation through Jesus. Think of how you were made. It wasn’t just your parents having sex. it was all the processes after. WHAT??? could make that???? Science can’t do it without the body fluids. Even cloning has to start with things from the body. Jesus and God, who are the same LOVE you no matter what you say or do! Just accept it. Just ask Jesus to come into your life and heart and forgive you of your sins so you can have eternal life in a perfect place. That’s all it requires. Don’t question it with science.

  • ungullible

    This is one of my favorite atheist blogs, but this has to be one of the most ridiculous posts I’ve seen here. On what basis should such displays of faith be banned? What rule is being broken?

    And yes, I think a similar display of atheism would be allowed. It might not be popular, which is perhaps why it is unlikely to happen, but there is no rule against it.

    I’m a proud Gator today, but I say the above regardless of player or the team.

  • jeff

    Problem is, there is NO WAY the team or the NCAA would allow “Praise Allah” to be written on his jagoff eyepatches. You think we have feeedom of expression here? America is a theocracy no different than the TALIBAN

  • Joe

    You God people continue to run your lives based on text written by primitive man who knew nothing about lightning, earthquakes, rainbows, solar/lunar eclipse, etc. If you really read your Bible, not the versions edited for children, you would know how barbaric the stories are and how God’s world is a slaughter house. Tebow is just another talented jock like Kurt Warner who was brainwashed into believing in an invisible friend. Get real, science is real!

  • mikespeir


    You’re going to have to try harder than that if you want to get moderated away here.

  • Well at least there’s some good moderate atheist comments here.

    I guess if it affects his gameplay it should be banned, but if not, meh.

  • JWIL

    I’d like to see the opposing Middle Linebacker facing him with eyeblack saying DEUT 23:1.

  • DMoe

    So Scott, you wouldn’t have a problem with a player who had “god is fake” on his eye-black??? The john3-16 doesn’t bother me because it is all business advertising like Coke or Burger King. Just another ad for a greedy corporation. Buy Je$us!

  • rex

    Ah intolerent anti-Christian bigotry lives on.

  • I thought that was a bit over the top, adding to that his “chomp chomp” hands actions that cost him a penalty. Cocky MoFo that Tebow.

  • Mathew Wilder

    Eh. Who gives a shit about college sports/football anyway?

  • Funkshun


    You do realize by saying we worry about the little things, your are in fact calling yourself out for the same thing. Think a little bit for once, it makes a world of difference.

  • Spurs Fan


    And it applies to the majority as well, not just people who hate God

    Atheists don’t hate god. We just don’t believe in him/her. Do you hate unicorns? Fairies? Santa? And while most of us have no problem with Tim Tebow wearing whatever mythical items he desires below his eyes, we’re interested to know if he would have been accepted had he had “There is, No god” or “Praise, Allah” under his eyes.

    Seriously, I think people who complain about little stuff like this should actually get out and do something good for the community instead of wasting your time bitching.

    You mean like people who get upset when I say “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas?” Or the people who get pissed when a U.S. Congressman swears on the Koran instead of the Bible? Or the people who boycott Disney for having “Gay Days”? Or people who support “Saving Private Ryan”, with all of its shrapnel-ripping-flesh goodness being shown uncensored on public television, but get upset when a nipple is displayed for a nanosecond? Or the people in the 90’s who wanted cursed NBA player Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf for using his religious freedom to express his religious and poltical views by not saluting and turning his back on the U.S. Flag before games?

  • Ingersoll’s Revenge

    Notice how every comment troll has accused atheists of wanting to censor freedom of religion/speech and claimed that our lives are “miserable” because we stress over little things – when almost everyone has stated that they have absolutely no problem with Tim Tebow painting “John 3:16” under his eyes or simply don’t care either way.

    Is beating up straw men fun? Is that why you keep doing it? Hmm, maybe I should give it a try sometime. I’m making a trip to Iowa.

    The whole point of this thread was to bring up the question of a double-standard, anyway. Would someone be allowed on the field with “There Is” “No God” painted on his face, let alone broadcast on national television? Well, we don’t know because no one’s tried it yet, but given the track record of atheists stating their lack of belief and the subsequent uproar from the Religious Right, I wouldn’t be surprised.

    How you equate that idea with “get the Xians” is beyond me.

  • trader

    If Tebow wishes to walk aroud campus ( as an individual) with his eyes on his sleeve, so be it. But when he is a part of a public institution and representing same he must keep his messages secular. We do not pay taxes for education to promote a certain religion. I believe it is a question of separation of church and state and the Gator coaches made a serious error in allowing it. Tim should have attended Notre Dame or Boston College they needed him.

  • Wade

    Joe – I guess you say everything made itself. Everything working together is a given. Something had to make all of this science and even you. I hope your eyes are opened before your time is up. You have been told of the Word. I hope God has mercy on you.

  • Spurs Fan,

    Nice effort. You explained our position well. But honestly, it was probably a waste of your time. Folks like Scott don’t “get it.”

  • Polly

    I hate sports spectatorship in general. Now, I hate it a little more.
    Thanks, Tebow.

  • trader: “If Tebow wishes to walk aroud campus (as an individual) with his eyes on his sleeve, so be it. But when he is a part of a public institution and representing same he must keep his messages secular.”

    I don’t see how the establishment clause of the First Amendment would apply here. There is no serious likelihood that Tebow’s face-painted Bible verses would be confused for any official endorsement of religion, which is what that clause is about.

  • Maybe it’s just because I don’t care about sports, but honestly, why does it matter if he has 3:16 written on his eyebrows? Even if we did agree that there’s something wrong with that, there’s just no practical purpose to it. If we were going to pursue purely symbolic issues, there’s a very long list of more important symbolic issues, such as removing “under God” from the pledge. There are bigger windmills to tilt at, is what I’m saying.

    In other news, In-N-Out has “John 3:16” printed on the bottom of their cups. OMG boycott!!!

  • Rest

    With the risk of severe head and brain injuries football players face, I wonder if Jesus would approve of such a violent game?


  • The God-obsessed athlete is one of my pet peeves, and considering I like sports, I notice it all the time. Even though I don’t believe in God, I’d like to think that if there was a God, He wouldn’t be concerned with intervening in sporting events while there are wars and while AIDS is devestating Africa (with the help of some fundamentalist Christians).

    If Tebow really, fully believed that he owes all of his success to God, then he should never practice again, and spend all of his prep time praying.

  • SMSGator

    Invariably, those people that are the least confident in their beliefs have the most need to constantly be putting them out for public consumption, as well as to be always proslytizing. Those secure in their faith don’t have to be always sticking it in everyone’s face.

    OTOH, since I’m a Gator (1979), if it helps Tebow to believe that Jesus is a Gator too, more power to him. I didn’t really find it annoying for him to have “John 3:16” on his face, I thought it was rather amusing that he didn’t realize what it says about him.

    We have a fast food chain out here that prints “John 3:16” on the bottom of their soda cups, “Proverbs 3:5” on the milkshake cup, “Revelation 3:20” on the hamburger wrappers, and “Nahum 1:7” on the double hamburger wrappers. It’s pretty low key, and it started when the founder’s son became “born again.” Certainly it’s less annoying than what Alaska Airlines does. I won’t fly on Alaska Airlines because of it. Plus In ‘N Out treats their employees very well, and it’s a well managed company. I was impressed when I was in one of their restaurants and someone came in and asked if he could sweep the parking lot in exchange for some food and the manager readily agreed.

    Now lettuce pray.

  • Wade, no. You want to find out how stuff got here then go find out. The information is freely available and you can even test the ideas of others through experiment yourself if you so wish. As for why, you assume there is a why and you assume there is a causer.

    There has to be a beginging point and anything, example God, that can ceate itself can certainly create us and everything we see.

    There has to be a beginning point is an assumption that you make. You also assume that this beginning is supernatural. Then you assume that this supernatural cause is God, the Christian God no less. If you don’t know the answer to something the very best solution is not to assume something is the cause or assign the cause to something that you like the sound of. Isn’t a better option to admit ignorance and seek an actual answer than satisfies the evidence? Seriously.

    You say that science cannot explain everything. I wholeheartedly agree but then we’ve barely begun to explore the universe, we have more questions ahead of us than we can even imagine today. Why should we assume that we know the answers now?

    That’s all it requires. Don’t question it with science.

    What else should we question things with?

    Hank, I agree that the majority probably have no problem with a sportsman promoting his religious opinions during a sport. A democracy allows for all members of society to have a voice and anyway, what you have is a constitutional federal republic with a distributed form of democracy. You are lucky enough to live under a system that protects the rights and opinions of the minority in your form of democracy to limit the tyranny of the majority. I’m not sure that this was the point you were trying to make. I think the point was that most people disagree so I should just shut up. Right?

    hoverDog, I have my moments. 😉

    I’d like to point out that no-one, not even my own intolerant self, has called for him to cover his eye black or change his message. I don’t like it, I think it’s stupid, I think the messages themselves are some twisted insanity when you actually read them critically, but he has every right to put what he likes on his face.

  • No one; Atheist, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc.; gives up their right to display their religious views or lack of them just because they are in public. We do not give away our right to freedom of expression just because we are elected to public office or have our pictures put on TV.

    If you want to get Christian messages out of the public square, spend your time putting forth cogent, persuasive arguments against it.

  • Hank

    Hoverfrog – no I don’t think you should have to shut up at all. You have as much right to your opinion as the other 88% that don’t agree. I simply don’t understand why people have to rail on a guy because he has faith. Moreover, why do no believers feel so threatened by this? I’m pretty sure Tim Tebow is not threatened by your lack of faith so why should you be threatened by his lack of a lack of faith?

  • I’m sure that Tim Tebow cares not a jot for me or my opinions Hank. It isn’t a matter of feeling threatened either even though I consider some opinions and practices of Christians could potentially threaten me and others. That I think it is stupid and without value is not the same as feeling threatened.

    It isn’t even that we rail on a guy because he has faith. More in the way that he chooses to express this faith. To me I perceive him not as a man with faith to support him but as a caricature or joke who paints odd biblical references on his face.

  • It would’ve been better if he put 1Thess 5:21 instead. BTW, I don’t watch or care for American football.

  • Eliza

    Interesting as a WWJD? moment.

    Can you picture Jesus with “John” “3:16” written under his eyes? (Sick irony to that particular verse, for him-as-a-human.)

    In football, what position would Jesus play? Would smiting, excorsising demons, and performing miracles during the game violate the rules? I don’t remember anything from the NT about super-human strength, but he could call on the Holy Spirit for a bit of a boost, and he would presumably have an “in” with the big guy at those pre-game prayers.

  • Jenny

    Amazingly, Mehta doesn’t quite grasp that the same rights that protect us from religion controlling government, protect the religious from being censored. The US Constitution provides the religious the right to free expression, and Tebow has EVERY right to write John 3:16 on his forehead. Just as David Ortiz of the Red Sox thanks God on the baseball field, as do others.

    Perhaps Mehta, and other fundamentalists like him, need to educate themselves, free themselves from their narrow world view, and respect the rights and freedoms of others. The US is NOT a caste system, individuals have rights and those rights aren’t suborned for the petty whims of those who have an unhealthy obsession with persecuting Christians.

  • badgers54

    With all the problems in the world.. war, starvation, etc. Do you really think God cares about a football game? Give me a break Tebow, keep your religion where it belongs, your home and church, not a football field. What if he lost the game, what does God think of him then? It all is pure stupidity.

  • anony-mouse

    is it the national Christians Have Nothing Better To Do Than Argue With Atheists On Atheist Blogs day?

  • Dillon

    I have to wonder if his coaches or NCAA officials would allow him to have “There Is” “No God” written on his eye black below his right and left eyes…

    It should say, I think there is no God, since you have not been everywhere in the Universe, you don’t know for sure.

  • Brian Harmon

    Why comment on Tim Tebow’s performance public display of his faith at all? He didn’t bash athiests on national tv. Therefore, isn’t your blog/article more of a political statement? There is more anger towards Christians (christianity) in this site/blog than positivity. Look at the posts above. Everyone is supposed to be happy and respect each other according to your FAQ? Please comment back – I am curious.

  • Why comment on Tim Tebow’s performance public display of his faith at all? He didn’t bash athiests on national tv. Therefore, isn’t your blog/article more of a political statement? There is more anger towards Christians (christianity) in this site/blog than positivity. Look at the posts above. Everyone is supposed to be happy and respect each other according to your FAQ? Please comment back – I am curious.

    No one is mad at Tebow. I’m just commenting on the double standard. An atheist would probably not have been allowed to do what Tebow did. That’s an important point to make.

    And while we can all be respectful to other people (and I try to do that on this site), that doesn’t mean we touch religion with kid gloves. Beliefs must undergo scrutiny and they must be criticized when warranted.

  • Wade

    hoverFrog – I have my answer and I hope you find the same one eventually. Things just didn’t get here just because. That’s not the way it works. Things just don’t happen for no reason. There is always a why and always an answer even though we may not know or understnd it. It’s called faith. I hope you will try it. If you have to answer everything with science why don’t you go investigate the archaeological evidence of the Bible’s truth. Do you really think that some bunch of stars that were just there for no reason decided to crash together and form humans and birds and earth and whatever. I don’t. I also don’t believe we came from gorillas or monkeys or whatever. I hope you will listen to reason and not science that is created by humans and probably has some huge errors in it. Yes humans to screw things up. I just hope you will think about this and check out the “science” behind the Bible since that is your answer for everything. Between now and then I’m going to pray that God will show you something that will just flat knock you down with His answer.

  • socreins

    why do you care if he promotes his faith?

  • Felix

    This is American DNA and what makes America a great nation – Christians and their beliefs – and if people dont like this kind of stuff, there are plenty of countries like India, Iran, Saudi, China that they could go live and never see these type of things.
    Be my guest and I will buy you a one way ticket. No one forced you to come live in America. It is a personal choice.

  • Wade, I’m sure you mean well but I have plenty of very good reasons to reject belief in gods of any kind. I started writing about this last week on Off The Map if you’re interested in exploring common atheist reasons.

    Science is an excellent tool to test the validity of a claim. For example geological strata throughout the globe shows not a jot of evidence for a global flood event that is consistent with the biblical Flood myth.

    Organic molecules (this is not molecules from organisms but a certain kind of molecule) have been detected on comets. Similar comets undoubtedly struck the forming Earth.

    If you don’t believe that we share a common ancestor with apes and monkeys, a different idea than being descended from them altogether, then try reading about evolution and examining the vast amount of evidence that supports it. It really is fascinating stuff with genuine, real world applications.

    I hope you will listen to reason and not science that is created by humans and probably has some huge errors in it.

    Science is really the application of reason to better understand the world based on observable facts. It is not really possible to separate reason from science. Of course scientists make mistakes, sometimes the evidence leads in strange directions. Fortunately science has a mechanism to correct this and reduce human error. Religion has no such mechanism. Which is often unfortunate.

  • Tim
  • Wade

    hoverfrog – where did the comets come from?

  • Wade

    hoverfrog – how were the commets made?

  • Wade

    hoverfrog – what made the stuff that made up the commets? What made the stuff that made up the stuff that made up the stuff that made the commets? Where did it come from? THe commets just put thier brains together and said lets make up Earthand humans. So I guess we are controled by humans. How about the plagues in the Bible? Did you know there is a reasonable scientific explaination for each of the plagues but that the chances of the happening at that time and all together re near impossible? What caused them? Why the Egyptians?

    Read about it here: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread412917/pg1

  • Wade

    ** Controlled by commets^^

  • Wade

    where did the comets come from?

    The Oort Cloud.

    Thank you for the link but I think that you’d get much more information from a book on cosmology or a basic science book. The questions you ask are all very interesting and the answers may provide some measure of understanding on how we came to be. It seems that you are dismissing naturalistic explanations without really considering them.

    Questions about what caused what, for you, end in a creator but this only begs the question of what caused the creator. Saying that a creator needed no creator begs the question again. If God needed no creator then why does the universe? God is simply not needed to make sense of the world, the universe and our lives within it.

    As for the plagues, because I never can resist saying too much, how do you know that they did not occur naturally? How do you know that the improbability of them occurring makes a natural explanation impossible? How do you know that they even happened at all? And if they did happen by God’s hand, what does that say about the God who made them? Did the first born sons of Egypt deserve to die. How cruel, how evil is a creator who would toy with people’s lives in such ways?

  • How cruel, how evil is a creator who would toy with people’s lives in such ways?

    How evil is demolishing an anthill with your lawnmower, or installing a bug-zapper just to watch insects self-annihilate? I mean just when you consider scale, and the enormity of God, a couple little flies getting in his way is probably no big deal, to him at least.

    Granted God is supposed to be personal and intimate and love us all equally. Then again, God’s perfect sense of justice is supposed to trump his love (else why would he have to sacrifice himself to himself?). Then again, the mass murder of children isn’t exactly a just punishment for enslaving all the descendants of a single person. Oh look, I’ve gone cross-eyed again.

  • Hoffy

    That’s not religious stuff he’s written, that’s his latest boyfriend and the size of his dick, yeah it’s true he’s gay but he didn’t want anyone to know, it’s a secret, oops have I said to much………….

  • AJ

    I wonder what they would do if he had..

    “Legalize pot”… under his eyes.

    Or what would really be funny is

    I am sure they wouldn’t allow that, however that is a message MILLIONS of Americans want to express, so it is a double standard,”We like THAT view, but we dislike this other one because it ‘promotes’ drug use”

    Basically, allow ALL messages, or none at all.

    Now if this was the NFL, I might say it should be up to the NFL since it is a private company. however I am guessing this is a public college, with public funding, from everything to the arena to the coaches salary.

    oh I have another one for ya

    “Gay rights”

  • Wade

    hoverfrog – I give up. You are so wrapped up in having to prove everything you can’t believe in anything. Maybe one day I’ll meet the genious commet that invented me from itself and whatever made that commet have mercy. EVERYTHING IS NOT IN A DAGUM BOOK. Do you have to go find it in some stupid formula or aerospace book that someone or something(MAYBE GOD) LOVES… LOVES you. Why is that so impossible? What about your wife or mom or friend or partner .. whatever. Do you have to find that in a book or prove through science that they actually love you? I don’t care what you or anybody says science never will explain everything. That just a FACT of life. I’m done. Hope you have a great life but I hope you turn it around so you don’t burn in hell forever.

  • Wade, that just isn’t true. I believe in lots of things. I just like to check that the things I believe in have some basis in fact.

    EVERYTHING IS NOT IN A DAGUM BOOK. Do you have to go find it in some stupid formula or aerospace book that someone or something(MAYBE GOD) LOVES… LOVES you.

    I’m not sure what a dagum is and I couldn’t find it in my dictionary. However the point you make simply does not follow from a reasoned discussion about cosmology. Love is subjective, emotional, opinion and intuitive. For an emotion an equally subjective emotional response is fine. That’s not the subject though unless you are suggesting that Tim paints his face to display his irrational feelings about his faith. That seems a bit unfair on the young lad.

    As you asked about my own emotional attachments I’ll tell you that I’m happy in my long term relationship. We balanced individuals we have physical, intellectual and emotional connections based on mutual respect and desire. We’ve grown together for much longer than the typical American marriage. We don’t have to hold anything back for a god though.

    I don’t care what you or anybody says science never will explain everything. That just a FACT of life.

    Perhaps not but I am something of a pragmatist. Learning a lot about a lot might be nowhere near learning everything but it is still far superior to learning nothing. Science is a wonderful tool to explain the natural world and we’d be fools to forsake it because it occasionally suggests things that might challenge our presuppositions.

    Hope you have a great life but I hope you turn it around so you don’t burn in hell forever.

    Thank you, I intend to carry on having a great life and I have no intention of burning in hell. That’s because I don’t believe in hell and not because I live in fear of it. I hope things work out for you too.

  • Jeremy

    Just because you don’t believe in something doesn’t make it not exist. I pray for you atheists because Jesus can save you.

    Was it just plain luck that an Airbus plane just crash landed in the Hudson and no one got hurt? God was watching over those people. I think God is trying to tell people that He is still in control and is watching over us even in tough times.

  • Tiger

    Hey Jeremy…so, are you saying that when a plane crashes and everyone dies, it means Jesus wasn’t watching over those people? WTF?

  • g8rphann

    I think we got our “censorship” test case.
    Two weeks ago Ohio State QB Terrelle Pryor had eye black saying “Vick”, as an homage to recently free NFL QB Michael Vick (who killed and tortured dogs while financing an illegal dog fighting ring).

    He failed to impress anyone with his explanation of why he chose to wear Vick’s name on his eye black. His coach, Jim Tressel, put an end to it by saying, “Any messages or symbols on players eye black will be strictly “government issue” from here on in”. Basically, it will have an Ohio State logo, or nothing.

    I’d bet the house that next season, the NCAA will adopt the same attitude as Coach Tressel.

    I’m not what you’d call a religious man myself… but i’ll be praying for Timmy’s health given the hit he took last night and the subsequent “issues” that followed.

    Go Gators!

  • It really has no place in organized sports. The lengths these teams go to in order to maintain uniformity make it hard to believe that Tebow is allowed to wear the verses.

    That being said, it’s not really a big deal. Atheism isn’t a hatred of Christianity, it’s the personal belief that there is no supreme being. If Tebow’s going to be attacked, what about Phil Jackson and his overt Buddhism? Jackson uses religion to teach his teams! Neither Muhammad Ali nor Kareem Abdul-Jabbar were wallflowers when they converted to Islam. If there’s going to be a fuss over one, there needs to be a fuss over them all. Otherwise, it’s best to just leave everyone to what they believe and make sure they leave us alone about our beliefs.

  • Carolyn

    I feel that Tebow is well within his human rights to display bibical markings on his face, arms or where ever he wants. What is the difference in this and all the gross and indecent tatoos we are all subject to viewing everywhere?

    I admire him or any one who will go outside the box for his convictions, and then have critics try to pick him a part.

    God bless him and others who love our Lord!

  • slantrhyme

    How is it that things get so off target so quickly….and so repeatedly? All Hemant was doing (as it appears to me), was asking a theoretical question: could any other message other than a Xtian one be deemed acceptable?

    It seems like a genuine question, and one worth exploring. As any atheist kid surrounded by hard-core bible beaters could tell you, there is a LOT of censorship that happens in schools. It’s OK to be wear pro-jesus t-shirts, etc, but try wearing a shirt that says “pagan” or “satan”.

    Say “hello” to detention….

  • Dale

    As a professional pilot, I find that highly offensive. That Airbus accident had a good outcome by the skilled pilots who made good decisions in the short window they had. To suggest otherwise is to insult their hard work and training.

  • Aquagirl4

    Badger you are completely intitles to your opinion. Thank you for having a strong belief in you own opinion. This is my opinion.. Tebow has a platform that he has worked hard to earn. He feels passionate about God and chose to display that on his body. Almost like cross tatooos, or verse tatoos. And for God, I’m not God. I do not know what he would think if he loss. But, I do know God has a bigger perpose than just football for Tebow. And everyone has to evperience failure to gain dignity and strength.

  • Longblondeleg

    You said an atheist probably wouldn’t be allowed to do what Tebow did.  That makes no sense to me at all.  Why would an atheist do anything, if they believe nothing.  There is no statement to make.  My husband is an atheist and he always laughs at atheists that have an opinion about this stuff.  His exact words are….”I’m supposed to have an opinion, about something that I have no opinion about to begin with?”.

  • Tehenbo

    As an internet atheist, I 

  • koyote_ken

    This is the problem with the ignorant god-botherers…….they can’t spell or put two coherent sentences together. “I do not what he would think if he loss” ???
    Yet YOU KNOW he has a bigger “perpose” for Tebow. Seriously? Grow up. Use your mind to investigate the world around you rather than spewing stupidity.

  • brice

    Y would it matter what he wears below his eyes. its no ones right to say. It’s not like there swears written there. People like you are the reason the America is on its way down.. this is still a free country. For now..

  • Someone123

    The root cause of all the problems of this world (war, hunger, unemployment, cancer, stroke, emotional stress, etc.) is too much negativity in us. If someone shares an idea or shows a direction to a destination, we immediately shut him down. We are very quick to judge a person. Joyful and long living people’s secret is to live positively. Let’s learn from others and not try to discredit the lesson. Let’s stay positive.

  • Faceoffg2

    That’s right,  i’m really happy that there are people like Tebow. And stop that hate, God created you and everything around you after all. All you have its trough him, so be thankful for that you still have breath in you because the Lord doesn’t need disobey sinners in his presence. Its all trough love you  are still alive to write this article and its all trough him.  So stop hating and worship the Lord for what he has done for you.

  • ;)

    I believe in the Greece mythology more than what you have said so far. We all know that science is not accurate regarding the prediction of previous events (talking about hundreds of years). They cant tell if there was such flood nor meteors its all an illusion just like your atheistic believes. The sad thing is that we are all sinners and God doesn’t need unfaithful child. There fore see you in hell buddy.

  • ricky neal

    from ricky neal like what tim tebow has on his eyes john 316 you have two belive and have faith in are lord savoir jesus christ and  you two pray every night and every day no matter you say

  • ricky neal

    from ricky neal if tim tebow likes two knee pray for are lord savoir before he comes out of tunnell before a game he has a right two do go jets

  • ricky neal

    from ricky neal if you have a promble with football and tim tebow well two bad thats you i have in my lord savoir jesus christ i pray every night and every morinig and i read my bibles every day and every night

  • ricky neal

    from ricky i have faith my lord savoir jesus christ  belive in my lord savoir jesus christ just as tim tebow does

  • ricky neal

    from ricky neal this world  is just fine as long as you have in jesus christ you will be okay

  • ricky neal

    from ricky neal like watching tim tebow play football for the jets sports is good you have two have faith in jesus christ

  • ricky neal

    from ricky neal tim tebow is great person and one heck of a football player for the jets

  • ricky neal

    from ricky let you tell you something as long as you belive in are lord savoir jesus christ he has a plan for your life and for tim tebow

  • ricky neal

    from ricky neal please belive and read  your bible and belive in your lord savoir jesus christ

  • ricky neal

    from ricky neal never say we failed ever a again thats not nice two say at all you have two believe in  your  lord savoir jesus christ

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