When Are Atheists Irrational?

I can imagine that in the USA, that to be an atheist requires quite an active decision, so to be apathetic and ‘dumb’ about it is rather uncommon.

But here in New Zealand, it is probably the norm. Most people would describe themselves as ‘not religious’, but they’re just as uncritical, gullible and foolish as everywhere else. It’s just that religion doesn’t dominate our culture the way it seems to other countries.

Well, it was/is bound to happen at some point. We, as atheists, can’t complain that “our group” isn’t bigger than it is, but then try to keep it as an exclusive, MENSA-members only. Like it or not, even if or when a majority of intellectuals or “smart people” come to their senses about religion, for the numbers to grow more, atheism will have to branch out into the unwashed masses, so to speak.

It’s a strange commentary, though, that we live in a world/country where the default state is to believe in an invisible man in the sky who listens to your thoughts, and to not believe that takes some kind of leap-of-intellectualism.

Concerning Hermant’s question – I have a group of friends at work who are all atheists. We didn’t mean for it to be that way, but it just kind of worked out that we were drawn together for other reasons – mostly demographic, went to the same college, same age, etc – and over time it emerged that every single one of us is atheist. We’re all smart people, working as engineers. And most of us do enjoy intellectual discussions on politics and religion and such, but there are a couple guys who are just not interested in talking about it. Yes, they are atheist, but they just don’t feel the need or desire to talk about religion or politics or anything like that. They feel like it is just another part of who they are, but they just aren’t interested in exploring/arguing/endlessly pontificating over it like many of us.

Given the % of atheists who are libertarians, the existence of stupid atheists is not news to me.

Is it an oxymoron to be a “dumb atheist”…?

Of course not. Of all the millions of kinds of irrationality humans are subject to, atheism addresses only one.

It’s not about whether you agree with them or not. But to find an apathetic atheist?
That’s rare, no?

Not in my experience. All of the atheists I have met off-line are sure that politics is not important, that voting is useless, that writing politicians is a joke, and when someone discusses bigotry toward atheists, they seek to end the discussion as swiftly as possible. They say ‘I don’t believe in all that crap [religion] but I don’t want to argue about it.’ Living along Utah’s beautiful (but sometimes smoggy) Wasatch front, I’ve met dozens of atheists of this sort. Most of them are of average intellect and education – or a little better – and their most intellectual pursuits are Dungeons & Dragons and World of Warcraft – but they don’t want to talk about any issue that is even slightly political, and they have no idea what is going on in politics.

I’ve not had a belief in a god for about 10 years but I wasn’t interested in politics or current events, or any intellectual pursuits until last year really. It’s not that I wanted to be dumb, I just found it all rather depressing (the politics/current events part) and raising three kids didn’t give me much time for intellectual pursuits. Besides, my husband kept up with all of that so I just let him fill me in. I wasn’t stupid, but I wasn’t trying to know more about the world around me either. I was friends with a family who were more clueless than I was. I think they slapped atheist on as another “cool” label that made them different. I found them to be unbearably dumb after a while. Last year I just decided keeping my head in the sand wasn’t for me anymore but I can still see why one would choose to do it. There are some days, like in the past few weeks, when I wish I had no idea the state of our nation because it’s a lot less stressful. My kids are older now and it’s as much for their benefit as it is for mine that I know and understand what’s going on in the world.

Seriously, leave the bible belt & explore the rest of the world.

Go to Europe or even much of Canada and you’ll meet a lot of atheists that were just born that way, never really thought about religion and never had to think about it. They’ll have silly beliefs like anyone else. Because of the fears of witchcraft, few Christians get involved with New Age, so kooky beliefs about crystals, crop circles, or even aliens are held by many atheists. Conspiracy nuts are also often atheist.

While atheists have shed one superstition, doesn’t mean we’re all super-rational.

wait

There is nothing wrong with being an atheist yet not wanting to make that the foundation of every interaction. And it shouldn’t require one to display exceptional logic and education on all topics to be qualified as an atheist. There are many average people who have common sense, but little formal education, who can see that religion doesn’t make sense; it’s rarely a epiphany, but rather a natural conclusion – a “well, duh” moment, if you will.

I have stopped reading most atheist blogs regularly (except this one) because I’m tired of the constant warfare; I pop in every two weeks or so, look for something practical or new, and skip the repetitive rest.

The general mood of class/religious disdain (often outright prejudice) has gotten old; as long as atheism = elitism, it will never win those masses who feel something’s not quite right with religious belief, but can’t find a comfortable source of information to learn more without a master’s degree – maybe from a redneck, gun-toting, land-loving atheist :).

I still work toward related issues such as separation of church and state, and sometimes wear a t-shirt with a cute slogan. I am grateful to those people who are immersed in the atheism agendas, because they are an information resource for me. But, I have many religious friends and acquaintances – we have a lot in common, and that includes most political views, social views, what to do for fun, etc. I found the constant degrading of religious folks in many blogs was impacting my friendships, changing how I viewed them; once I stepped back, I realized that my friends no more let religion guide their every thought and action than I should allow atheism to guide mine. We are a much happier group now, and they can see my atheism for what it is–just another valid belief that a normal, functional middle-class person can have without becoming radical, or a pain in the arse.

It makes sense. As Hume (quite rightly) insisted, we are not dispassionate reasoners. Our emotions slope the field of our reason, so it seems more likely that there are just certain types of people that are more inclined to atheism, whether they arrive at it very rationally at it or not. I think a lot of the commenters on Dawkins’ site are gung-ho atheist idiots. It’s too bad.

I’ve met more than a few atheists who came to enlightenment by way of Marilyn Manson rather than science or reason. These are the “fuck god” kids in high school who thought it was cool to draw anarchy symbols all over the cover of their notebooks.

If you ever wanted to solve the mystery of why popular opinion of atheists is so raw, blame these assholes.

Some atheists I know are atheists because it’s “cool” and “rebellious” to do so. They didn’t really ever think it out, and they’re just following the punk or emo movement, trying to be “dark” and “alternative”. It’s rather stupid.

on October 11th, 2008 at 10:14 am, Adrian said:

Seriously, leave the bible belt & explore the rest of the world.

Go to Europe or even much of Canada and you’ll meet a lot of atheists that were just born that way, never really thought about religion and never had to think about it.

I am actually considering moving to Canada. Religion, debt and war: That is the USA today.

Jumping on the “atheism-getting-mainstream” bandwagon, if there is one. The majority of Sweden’s population are atheists, probably, but they’ve never thought about it and they probably couldn’t really tell you why they have the opinions they have. When a belief is the default, no intellectual activity is required to have it.

I only became an atheist to get chix! 😀

The majority of Sweden’s population are atheists…

Björn Ulvaeus is an atheist. Yay ABBA!

Okay, I’ll slither back into my hole now.

I’m not very interested in politics at all. Is that really so surprising? The mere lack of faith, and an affinity for critical thinking, does not in any way entail an interest in politics.

It sounds like Australia is a bit like Canada and Europe. We have plenty of apathetic atheists. That’s not to say that they’re apathetic about everything, just the question of god’s existence. I actually think this is as it should be. It seems much more sensible to be passionate about politics (or even sport) than refuting creationists’ claims. Obviously that’s not the case everywhere but the creationist lobby just isn’t a huge political force here.

FWIW, I reckon the real stupid atheists are the ones with the scientistic bent, the ones that say that if a question can’t be answered empirically then it’s meaningless. Fortunately, there’s not too many here at FA, but they’re rampant elsewhere in the atheist blogosphere.

I do know a few atheists who had no political interests whatsoever. One of them would actually shush me whenever I started talking about politics, or discussing issues I found important. We don’t really talk anymore, though.

Bill Maher is a homeopothy-swilling nutbag. Yes, you can be an atheist and be dumb as a post.

I used to be an irrational atheist in discussions. I irrationally assumed that there is not much difference between the USA and Europe. And when my language-skills are concerned… let’s just say that they beat the German of those, whom I argued with. I learned though.

I think the one that wrote that in a atheistic state, you would certainly find dumb atheists is very correct. That’s the fact of the Scandinavian countries, for instance Norway, where I live. And I think that is a healthy sign, that atheism isn’t longer an elite thing, but a “philosphy” also of “common people”. It means that the society as a whole has developed into a more seculare society. 🙂

I’ll admit it. I’m a 24 year old atheist in Chicago. I pay attention to the news as far as I listen to NPR and the BBC on my commute to work and evening news, although I’m not sure how much of it I absorb. I usually have a book by my bed, although I don’t read as often as I’d like. I wouldn’t say I’m Capt. Intellectual, nor would I say I’m stupid. I just figure myself to be a rather plain, ordinary, run of the mill fella’ who doesn’t believe in a higher power. I’m alright with that.

What some of these responses tell me is that there are a lot of unwitting atheists out there just ripe for the picking by proselytizing churches. A few superficial arguments at a particular time of life and these “atheists” are liable to turn religious in no time.