Gov. Tim Pawlenty Just as Scientifically Illiterate as Gov. Sarah Palin

I saw her comments on it yesterday, and I thought they were appropriate, which is, you know, let’s — if there are competing theories, and they are credible, her view of it was, according to comments in the newspaper, allow them all to be presented, or allow them both to be presented so students could be exposed to both, and — or more, and have a chance to be exposed to the, to the various theories and make up their own minds.

That’s a hell of a run-on sentence.

Regarding critiques of McCain/Palin, do any of you HONESTLY think that Obama/Biden will somehow NOT reach out to religious groups? Obama ducked the question of whether “under god” should stay in the pledge of allegiance repeatedly during his campaign. In a town hall meeting earlier this year, Obama encouraged Democrats to “get in church, reach out to evangelicals [and] link faith with the work that we do.” If I’m not mistaken, Obama attends church regularly, and has less than kind words for his mother (who was an atheist).

Weren’t we (atheists) just bitching about being shut out of the inter-faith breakfast at the Democratic convention?

Those of you who criticize Palin for not having enough “experience,” are really on some shaky ground. Interestingly enough, Palin is the ONLY one of the 4 candidates with ANY executive governance experience WHATSOEVER.
Aren’t most Obama supporters all about “change” etc etc? An outsider like Palin should be just what the doctor ordered.

Fact is, neither party represents the interests of us atheists, so stop trying to couch your support of a particular candidate in these terms.

Let’s be honest, and admit that those who consider themselves liberal, will be voting for Obama, and those who are Ayn Rand conservatives (like me) will be voting for McCain. I’m not sure why anyone would be ashamed to admit that. Either way, we’ll both be hoping that the guy (or girl) who wins will have sense enough to keep religion at arm’s length.

ATL-Apostate

If I’m not mistaken, Obama attends church regularly, and has less than kind words for his mother (who was an atheist).

He has nothing but the kindest words for her in one of his books. Unless you’ve got a cite for your claim, I think this quote rebuts it totally:

I think sometimes that had I known she would not survive her illness, I might have written a different book—less a meditation on the absent parent, more a celebration of the one who was the single constant in my life. In my daughters I see her every day, her joy, her capacity for wonder. I won’t try to describe how deeply I mourn her passing still. I know that she was the kindest, most generous spirit I have ever known, and that what is best in me I owe to her.

-Barack Obama, Dreams From My Father.

Those of you who criticize Palin for not having enough “experience,” are really on some shaky ground. Interestingly enough, Palin is the ONLY one of the 4 candidates with ANY executive governance experience WHATSOEVER.

WOW that’s defining the term “experience” in a self-serving way.
So “executive” experience is the only experience that counts as “experience” now does it?

Yeah, arguing with the legislature in Moose-ass Alaska for 1 year and change is JUST EXACTLY LIKE being a heartbeat away from the largest nuclear arsenal on the fucking planet. Why didn’t I see it before?

Yeah, I must really be on shaky ground by calling Palin a total newb… except that I’m really, really not. If you can’t see it, fine, but you aren’t going to convince anyone with your “She’s got more executive quality time than ANYONE!!! She’s practically Churchill!”

She’s Harriet Miers and Brownie all rolled into one… picked for her positions, not her accomplishments.

Aren’t most Obama supporters all about “change” etc etc?

Not me. I’m all about “competence”. See Brownie et al above.

An outsider like Palin should be just what the doctor ordered.

No, that’s not change… that’s more of the same. See Brownie, et al above. Sorry, we don’t need another fucking idiot Governor “I is an executive.. I have executival type of experiences… I’m a DECIDER!” running things in Washington. These last eight years of a catastrophic underachiever of a president have been more than enough, thank you.

Fact is, neither party represents the interests of us atheists, so stop trying to couch your support of a particular candidate in these terms

Yeah, why should we discuss the intersection of politics and atheism on an atheist blog during a political campaign season?

Let’s be honest, and admit that those who consider themselves liberal, will be voting for Obama, and those who are Ayn Rand conservatives (like me) will be voting for McCain.

I have no trouble talking about why I’ll vote for Obama. But to expect that I’m not going to talk about proper science education when discussing the pros and cons of each candidate is ridiculous.

It sounds to me like you would rather we not discuss the issues, but rather just say “liberals will vote for Obama, and conservatives will vote for McCain”.

Sorry, but I think people SHOULD discuss the issues. I think it does help (maybe not you, but some people perhaps) to read the best arguments and then decide. For someone like you who touts the “experience” of Palin, I think it helps that you wrote what you wrote, and everyone reading just laughed a huge guffaw at your ability to contort your internal reasoning to make her out to be some kind of elder statesman!

People do change their minds. I have seen it happen. And one of the things that starts it is when things like the Palin nomination cause people to focus on issues.

If it’s actually true, as McCain leads us to believe, that there are “bad people” out there who wish to “harm America” and only the republicans can keep us safe, why follow it up by nominating a beauty queen and sportscaster to be the next person to have to stare Putin and Nyvedev and Ahmadenajhad down, eye-to-eye and toe to toe should anything happen to the man who aspires to be America’s oldest president ever?

I pay attention to the issues, and I discuss them and argue them, all throughout the campaign season. I can even be brought to new and different opinions on a multitude of issues that add up to putting more or less weight on which issues I support. I would indeed be ashamed, and should be ashamed, if I ignored the issues and voted for a candidate merely because I felt they belonged to “my” political kindred tribe.

But if that’s what you do, it must make things quite easy for you. No need to dissect or discuss or even think about the issues. Just pull the lever next to the “R”.

Not to say that’s what you do. It may not be. But it looks to me like it’s how Palin got her job, like Brownie and Myers and any number of “ideologically pure” sycophants before her. No expertise required… just toe the party line and have the big oil donations deliver the votes.

Ah yes, we need yet another “oil person” in the White house. Haven’t had enough of them over the last 8 years.

if there are competing theories, and they are credible,(…), allow them all to be presented

agreed.

Intelligent design is something that in my view is a plausible and credible and something that I personally believe in

however, your views and beliefs do not a credible scientific theory form.

Some interesting poll results on American attitudes on evolution is here: http://www.pollingreport.com/science.htm. One of the findings is that 58% of Americans favor teaching creation alongside evolution. We have a lot of educating to do.

Yes she was a sportscaster, before she was a hockey mom.

In fact here is a replay of her sportscasting skills:

http://www.myleftnutmeg.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=0D36F77896CE7133A3DDB526C839B3FF?diaryId=10219

This is only one clip, but I would say she is pretty fast reading the teleprompter.

Here are my ‘sports’ questions for her:
– Do you support a right for employees’ to have guns in their cars at work?
– if so, would the Whitehouse be safer if all staffers and visitors were required to pack iron? At campaign events?

But if they wanted to select a woman, couldn’t the Republicans have found one with more intelligence and better education?

If they had, would she still be a Republican? Or, for that matter, would she conceivably be a candidate that the general population of Republican voters would approve of?

~David D.G.

Name one meaningful piece of legislation ever sponsored by Obama.

Here’s one.

and associating with an admitted terrorist

I don’t think he currently associates with Ayers, who is, after all, a professor at the University of Illinois, working in the field of education and urban school education reform. The group that Obama served on was the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which was a project started by Ayers at the personal request of Chicago Mayor Richard Daley. That alone shows that this guy’s gone mainstream.

You act like this guy’s a current-day bomb-thrower and terrorist. There are former radicals among republicans too. Shall I call McCain a Vietnam era civilian-bomber? Shall we bring up Rumsfeld and Cheney’s ties to Saddam?

ATL apostate, I can’t tell if you actually ARE a rationalist. You seem to be parroting right-wing talking-points free of context and free of you looking into the deeper facts of the issue. I would appreciate a rational discussion of the issues at hand. But you’re going straight for the swift-boat smears.

I could say the same thing about being the junior senator from a midwestern state.

Yes, which is why he’s got some convincing to do to the American public. A job he’s busily working at. I think he’ll win at that.

Making fun of the state legislature in “moose-ass” Alaska is elitist,

Good. I’m not afraid to be called elitist when I say that I think the problems faced by the Governor of Alaska are not going to prepare her much, if at all, for running the nation should the unthinkable happen.

If she were the top of the Republican ticket, she wouldn’t even be ON the ticket. Obviously Obama IS the top of the democratic ticket, and you can’t say that was handed to him on a platter by the party elders. There is something to be said for the executive experience of beating the entrenched political power of the Clintons.

I think that Obama is an intelligent, considered, thoughtful problem solver who’s good at attracting top people to his team. That counts. For me, it’s going to count for a little bit more than commanding the state national guard in Alaska to protect its citizens from danger during moose-mating season. (Okay, I made that one up.)

If she were the governor of a southern state, I assume there would be KKK jokes inserted somewhere in your critique.

Yes, because one thing everyone knows about me is that I go right for the racial humor. NAW! Moose jokes, however, are always funny.

However, the fact that Palin (the VP candidate!) has more experience in two key areas (executive governance and military command) than the Presidential candidate from the Dems is a bit embarrassing.

Really? You’re going with the “military command” thing? Name me one meaningful military action commanded by Governor Palin in all her year of being this experienced military commander.

The fact that her experience is lacking, yet still outstrips the top candidate on the other side is a shame.

I think it blunts republicans criticism of Obama on exactly this issue. Palin brings nothing to McCain’s ticket, which truth be told, is a disappointment to someone who would like this exact issues to be raised and discussed. I’m a former McCain voter, and I have to say I’m disappointed in his choice. I’d like it to have been Giuliani, actually.

But if they wanted to select a woman, couldn’t the Republicans have found one with more intelligence and better education?

If they had, would she still be a Republican?

Olympia Snowe. Christy-Todd Whitman….

Or, for that matter, would she conceivably be a candidate that the general population of Republican voters would approve of?

Shit. Strike those then.

Still waiting on that meaningful legislation sponsored by Obama, or for that matter, any important legal papers he has published. Surely, if he was a Constitutional Law professor he would have some important briefs or publications…

Perhaps a precedent-setting argument at that?
No?

Also, still waiting for an example of Obama’s executive governance or commander in chief experience.
Anyone?

Does being a junior senator from Illinois give one the foreign policy experience needed to be president?

Can someone name one foreign policy item, bill or proposal initiated by senator Obama?

Does working in the inner city of Chicago somehow provide more “gravitas,” “intellect” and “foreign policy experience” than working in rural Alaska?

You can blast Palin as being inexperienced all you like. You can discount her experience all you like. The arguments used in so doing demonstrate an elitist bias against rural america and reveal Obama to be even more inexperienced.

At his best, Obama (Presidential candidate) is on equal footing with Palin (the VP candidate) with regards to executive governance and commander in chief experience.
And that’s just sad.

In other news, yes, ATL Apostate is very embarrassed over Palin’s ignorance over the “under God” issue and the “intelligent design issue.”
But hey , Obama thinks there are 57 states, and doesn’t know the difference between St. Louis and Kansas City. Go figure.

Surely, if he was a Constitutional Law professor he would have some important briefs or publications…

He was the president of the Harvard Law Review. That’s a publication.

Does working in the inner city of Chicago somehow provide more “gravitas,” “intellect” and “foreign policy experience” than working in rural Alaska?

Not necessarily. But in this specific incidence, yes.

Still waiting on that meaningful legislation sponsored by Obama,

Linked above.

Also, still waiting for an example of Obama’s executive governance or commander in chief experience.

Now, now, you haven’t answered my question about naming one meaningful military action commanded by Governor Palin. We’re taking turns at this “name one meaningful…” pissing contest. You can’t take two pisses in a row.

Can someone name one foreign policy item, bill or proposal initiated by senator Obama?

Make that THREE pisses!

At his best, Obama (Presidential candidate) is on equal footing with Palin (the VP candidate) with regards to executive governance and commander in chief experience.

Yes, and then hits it out of the ballpark with his power and ability to inspire us to address issues like education reform, poverty-reduction, global issues on the environment, social justice and the ability for America to lead by example. He serves on the Senate Foreign Relations committee, he serves on the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, and on the Committee for Veteran’s affairs. This is a different type of experience than “commander in chief” experience. But it’s experience nonetheless. Working in urban chicago for many years on education, poverty and social justice issues IS ALSO experience. Years and years of experience that you don’t necessarily get from being a part-time mayor of a tiny town in the woods.

I suppose it’s elitist to say that I don’t think a BS in “Communications-Journalism” from the University of Idaho is exactly equal to a BA in Poli-Sci at Columbia followed by a Harvard JD graduating magna cum laude and president of the Harvard Law Review.

But let me be elitist and say that yes, it does matter if we are to discuss the seriousness, substance and quality of a candidate.

What?! That can’t be Pawlenty’s view! Why, he and I attended the same Baptist megachurch for three years. What was he doing — listening?

Karen hits it out of the park again.

As she says, “do the research yourself”. Playing the “name me one….” game is what creationists do when they want to run out the clock with objection after objection.

Find sources you can corroborate. As a skeptic you should know, and be very wary of confirmation bias. Check the facts yourself. Check our facts if we are wrong about them… that’s how you and I as skeptics can illuminate the truth… as metal sharpens metal to quote the bible.