Ignorance is Bliss

To be fair, in the world of the comic, there is a god. He does puppet shows in the clouds.

That said, I’ve been growing increasingly disappointed with Sinfest as of late. I think I may be cutting it from my round of comics.

Let me be clear that I am an atheist, but I don’t understand how finding God in the beauty of nature indicates or would be predicated on scientific illiteracy. Indeed, it seems that someone could be scientifically literate about the workings of the universe, yet maintain a sense of awe for both the universe and the God that made it that way.

http://www.catholicleague.org/research/catholicism_and_science.htm

That said, there is a strong tradition in Catholicism of the use of reason as a means of discovering God: “In order to love and honor God, it is necessary to fully appreciate the wonders of his handiwork. Moreover, because God is perfect, his handiwork functions in accord with immutable principles. By the full use of our God-given powers of reason and observation it ought to be possible to discover these principles.”

Of course, reason was still supposed to defer to faith: “In matters “that we cannot yet grasp by reason—though one day we shall be able to do so—faith must precede reason,” stated Augustine.”

Either way, I think that atheists need a better response to the grandeur that theists see in nature and interpret as God than “scientific illiteracy.” Certainly, such a response seems to indicate that atheists are both unable to really understand what theists are experiencing in these moments, and unable to separate such an experience from the way in which it is interpreted. When it comes to feeling a sense of awe at the universe, many atheists are no different than theists. Where we differ is how we interpret this sense of awe.

Holy crap… there’s CLOUDS… and TREES… and… and MOUNTAINS. There is a God!

If fiction is to be worthwhile in any way, characters must be allowed to have experiences that differ from our own.

I agree completely, but it’s not exactly a relevant point. Hemant was specifically criticizing the main character. Whatever the author’s point was (and it frankly eludes me if it’s not an agreement with the main character), he’s displaying (whether or not he’s condoning) an attitude which Hemant rightfully criticizes.

I’m not going to assume that the author agrees with that attitude, and I’m certainly not going to claim that the author shouldn’t have his characters express that attitude, but I’ll gladly join in criticizing that attitude.

I cut Sinfest from my bookmarks a while back. Tatsuya seems to have lost touch with reality, and is living almost entirely on black & white morality and hippie-dippy cliches.

That said, Hemant, I’m surprised at you. This comic doesn’t mention evolution at all. You can’t lump all lack of reason together.

That said, there is a strong tradition in Catholicism of the use of reason as a means of discovering God: “In order to love and honor God, it is necessary to fully appreciate the wonders of his handiwork. Moreover, because God is perfect, his handiwork functions in accord with immutable principles. By the full use of our God-given powers of reason and observation it ought to be possible to discover these principles.”

Reason isn’t discovering God in this example. Reason is discovering predictable, observable events in nature, and then attributing this to God a priori, without any reason for doing so. It is the kind of theistic mindset that goes, “Evolution proceeds through natural selection and not divine intervention…but God created the process of evolution!” Yet that latter statement is not supported by any evidence whatsoever in science.

No matter what, you can tack on an invisible, unknowable force outside of a perfectly reasonable explanation, but that doesn’t mean that supernatural bit you’ve tacked on is reasonable as well.

“I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.”
-Frank Lloyd Wright

I think, for some people, there’s a spiritual feeling, a sense of awe brought on by the world around them, since we don’t understand all of it yet, and it’s so beautiful and huge. I don’t think that bothers me, although it’s an unfortunate word for the phenomenon.

Another that doesn’t bother me:
“I feel God in this Chili’s tonight” from a drunk Pam on The Office.

😆 Now that’s funny, Chris. 🙂

As I scrolled down the page I saw the first panel and thought OK.

Then the second panel with the beauty of nature revealed.

I would have been perfectly content to stop reading there.

There is not God. Isn’t life wonderful.

“I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.”
-Frank Lloyd Wright

F.L.Wright, nature? Three words, snow, flat roof. I’ll bet he was responsible for lots of prayers that the damned roof wouldn’t leak.

Another one who couldn’t stand the idea there was something bigger than him in creation.

Oops, chris already posted about yesterday’s strip. as if I wasn’t long winded enough, without being redundant too.

Edit: oh, and I just realized I can’t spell for shit either. Ahem, “comparable”, “translates”. There, now I feel better.

for me, the artwork of the second panel more than makes up for the fact that she and I would have an uncomfortable disagreement about what the beauty of that scene suggests about the underlying nature of our universe.

But you’d probably have a comfortable agreement about the wonder the scene inspired. I think the character’s moment is one almost all people have had at one time or another…A dark day or time, a moment of beauty and regained wonder.

To speak truly, few adult persons can see nature. Most persons do not see the sun. At least they have a very superficial seeing. The sun illuminates only the eye of the man, but shines into the eye and the heart of the child. The lover of nature is he whose inward and outward senses are still truly adjusted to each other; who has retained the spirit of infancy even into the era of manhood. His intercourse with heaven and earth, becomes part of his daily food. In the presence of nature, a wild delight runs through the man, in spite of real sorrows. Nature says, — he is my creature, and maugre all his impertinent griefs, he shall be glad with me. Not the sun or the summer alone, but every hour and season yields its tribute of delight; for every hour and change corresponds to and authorizes a different state of the mind, from breathless noon to grimmest midnight. Nature is a setting that fits equally well a comic or a mourning piece. In good health, the air is a cordial of incredible virtue. Crossing a bare common, in snow puddles, at twilight, under a clouded sky, without having in my thoughts any occurrence of special good fortune, I have enjoyed a perfect exhilaration. I am glad to the brink of fear. In the woods too, a man casts off his years, as the snake his slough, and at what period soever of life, is always a child. In the woods, is perpetual youth. Within these plantations of God, a decorum and sanctity reign, a perennial festival is dressed, and the guest sees not how he should tire of them in a thousand years. In the woods, we return to reason and faith. There I feel that nothing can befall me in life, — no disgrace, no calamity, (leaving me my eyes,) which nature cannot repair. Standing on the bare ground, — my head bathed by the blithe air, and uplifted into infinite space, — all mean egotism vanishes. I become a transparent eye-ball; I am nothing; I see all; the currents of the Universal Being circulate through me; I am part or particle of God. The name of the nearest friend sounds then foreign and accidental: to be brothers, to be acquaintances, — master or servant, is then a trifle and a disturbance. I am the lover of uncontained and immortal beauty. In the wilderness, I find something more dear and connate than in streets or villages. In the tranquil landscape, and especially in the distant line of the horizon, man beholds somewhat as beautiful as his own nature.

~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

I think the character’s moment is one almost all people have had at one time or another…A dark day or time, a moment of beauty and regained wonder.

There is no wonder in the characters conclusion though. Nature is so beautiful and complex that it must have been created by god. That leaves no room for wonder or complexity to me. Had it been left at that we wouldn’t know the many things we now do.

Kind of like Yahweh, no?

No.

In the bible God isn’t in creation. I wish atheists who snark about the biblical religions would at least learn the basics of what they’re making fun of. They miss all the good points and don’t get near their target. At least among those who know the subject.

Well, it looks like the real dispute is Reality vs Intellectuals, rather than Science vs Religion.