Facebook Groups Against The Golden Compass

Hemant,

It all comes from fear, I think. Many Christians are overcome with fear of losing something that they don’t have to begin with. The faith that they desperately cling to is so very delicate that they have no choice but to be afraid of anything that would remotely challenge and threaten their beliefs.

I live in an area that is considered a part of the Bible belt; and yesterday, I had the pleasure of hanging out with an author who writes about philosophy, psychology, and spirituality outside of religion. It was a book-signing, and I observed the Christians’ reactions to a non-Christian writer. I even announced to them that I was a Christian who love his books, but to no avail. I was almost embarrassed to call myself one of them. But it’s not their fault. Religion teaches fear. Fear is a powerful thing. It makes us blind… And it makes us miss out on so many wonderful things we can experience and people we can befriend. Love is not supposed to have any boundaries.

At any rate, it was an eye-opening experience. I’m more committed now than ever to try to make people see the truth about religion.

Just as Richard Wade said, all this hype over The Golden Compass’ ungodlyness has actually made me want to read the books… and I’m totally joining that pro-Compass group on Facebook. =)

I’ve taken to organizing a group trip for the University of Alberta Atheists and Agnostics to go see this movie on premiere night. We’ll show our support.

“it’s message”

Ever notice the crazy religious people can NEVER spell?!?!

I went into the People against “The Golden Compass” group (http://erau.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6076133546) to defend misinformation about atheism and eventually had to protect evolution too.

Sure, it isn’t exactly appropriate, but I couldn’t take the crap they were spewing anymore. The same arguments were coming out and in the end, they still don’t understand the principles behind the subjects they were arguing.

I couldn’t care less if there was a Christian boycott to this film. As much as I hate to see a potentially good movie get low ratings/money when it comes out, I’ll enjoy the extra space to put my long legs (though as an atheist I’d much rather be kicking babies and the elderly in the seats in front of me).

Besides, there will be enough interested people to give this movie a good run. They don’t need to satisfy Christians to put out a good product.

This pretty much confirms my suspicion that this movie will basically just turn into another culture war stalking point. It will be compared to Narnia and Passion, and then ridiculed when it doesn’t make as much money or isn’t as good, or whatever, and then it will be implied that this means something, or that the nation’s atheism fad is waning, or whatever. Drudge will be all over it.

But wait, remember all those atheist groups demanding that no one go see Narnia or Passion? Oh wait, no you don’t, because by and large, we didn’t care if lots of people saw and enjoyed those movies. We didn’t organize campaigns to lobby people to not go see them, or pray that they wouldn’t do well or whatever.

And yet, we’re the angry, militant ones. Riiiiiiight.

If it helps, I joined the “Boycott the People Boycotting THE GOLDEN COMPASS” Facebook group, which was in fact started by a Christian. Unfortunately it only currently has 19 members.

Anyone remember the silly, brainless controversy over the book “Jonathan Livingston Seagull?” I want to shake these boycotting boneheads who apparently don’t have enough to do, and yell “It’s a frikking novel, guys! Get a frikking grip!”

Didn’t read the book, but saw the DVD a couple of months back, boy was that a trippy movie!

I don’t get it. When I saw the trailer of Golden Compass (finally thanks to Maria 🙂 ) I could not figure out what people are finding objectionable. Magicians? The Bible has magicians. Witches? They’re there too. Deamons? Oh there are a lot of them in the Bible. Talking animals? I’m sure there is a cartoon of Noah’s Ark that has the animals talking. I saw nothing about promoting any religion not promoting one. Unless you want to make the people’s superstition into a religion. Now there is something.

IMHO, those who have strong objections to it, have either lost their belief in Tinkerbell and won’t let children have that kind of fun OR they are superstitious themselves. It’s just a children’s movie and adults need to grow up! Wait! That might be part of the problem. They’ve grown up so much that they act more like children than children.

And Mriana,

I agree. Things always get so blown out of proportion. I was talking to my daughter this morning about some of the things we’ve been discussing here. I asked her what she and most of her friends think, and she said, “We really don’t care what each other’s beliefs are. We only care what kind of people they are.”

So at what point does it become so important that we have to constantly fight over it?

Mriana,

Yes, but you and I, and many others here are in the minority, it seems. When I said we, I meant us the human race.

Even us, as this blog as a whole, what is the objective? What are we doing? Sometimes, I wonder if it’s just my way of trying to fit in somewhere, to be understood, to be connected to a group of people that think lke me…??? I definitely have that in my family, but it’s not quite the same. I have that at church, but no matter how progressive they are, they are still “religious.” No one really speaks their mind completely. So I try to find the “genuine” people on blogs, in the Bible, in novels, in art, in music, in atheists..etc… I have made some amazing and alarming discoveries.

Why do others come here? Is there a higher purpose other than just conversation and venting our frustrations?

I just don’t know. I don’t know a lot of things lately. I’m escaping to NYC this weekend so I can get lost in the crowd for a couple days… and be free.

I finally finished the book this weekend, and I was not expecting the ending. So that was good. Also, I grok the panserbjorne. I hope the movie’s good – it’s New Line, so their track record gives me a little comfort at least.

As I said, “What are these people complaining about?” I still haven’t even seen any TV previews or alike for it in my area and as far as I know, it’s not coming here. They didn’t even allow “The History of Disbelief” to be shown on PBS here either. That is another reason why I want out of the Bible Belt. The A of G censor and control too much information in this area. 🙄

The same arguments were coming out and in the end, they still don’t understand the principles behind the subjects they were arguing.

Tolga, that’s actually a perfect description of about 90% of the interaction I’ve had with die-hard fundamentalist believers online. Understanding and changing one’s mind requires listening and being open enough to learn something new. Those traits are in short supply amongst fundamentalist believers, by design.

Now, when the action-packed, gratuitous-sex-and-violence-filled, heavily special effects-driven suspense thriller “The End of Faith” starring Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie, Shirley MacLaine, Bob Dole and the animated character Gollum as the Religious Moderate is released just before next Christmas, that will be a controversy!

ROTFLMAO Richard! I’m going to organize a group to attend the premiere of that one. 🙂

Why do others come here? Is there a higher purpose other than just conversation and venting our frustrations?

Um … it’s fun? We get a chance to chat with other people who understand where we’re coming from, and vent and rant occasionally? That’s about it.

Atheists aren’t real big on the whole “higher purpose” thing, Linda. 😉

Now, when the action-packed, gratuitous-sex-and-violence-filled, heavily special effects-driven suspense thriller “The End of Faith” starring Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie, Shirley MacLaine, Bob Dole and the animated character Gollum as the Religious Moderate is released just before next Christmas, that will be a controversy!

OH I just loved the MPD Gollum! He was a real nut! That was the only thing that caught my attention in LOTR. I was bored stiff with the rest of it. Gollum was great, but a religious moderate? 😕 I don’t know.

Ah here it is! I didn’t see it in the trailer and knowing me, I still won’t see what they are talking about after I see the movie, but whatever they are complaining about, it’s REALLY lame! 🙄

http://atheism.about.com/b/2007/10/15/bill-donohue-the-golden-compass-has-a-pernicious-agenda.htm

What atheism? I didn’t see it, because they worship deamons/gods in the movie. Donahue needs to read the Bible. Far more scary and fascinating creators are in that. Maybe he should take that away from his kids too.

Whatever the case… They all need to quit! That’s all I have to say because it’s all in the Bible somewhere or some facsimile of it. 🙄

Gollum as the Religious Moderate

Actually I once heard my friend Brian McLaren give a talk where he compares Gollum’s worldview to the theology/spirituality of conservative Christians. (And Sam’s worldview to the theology/spirituality of emerging/progressive Christians.) So if anything Gollum should play the fundamentalist. 🙂

Linda, I think you may be missing Karen’s point. The way I read it, you asked

Even us, as this blog as a whole, what is the objective? What are we doing?… Why do others come here? Is there a higher purpose other than just conversation and venting our frustrations?

Which I read as “let’s discuss why we are all here, as if we were put here by Some Unseen Force. Or perhaps we are really here for validation/ a deeper connection/ spiritual understanding, even though we say we are just here for conversation and fun.”

Karen answered with

Um … it’s fun? We get a chance to chat with other people who understand where we’re coming from, and vent and rant occasionally? That’s about it.

Atheists aren’t real big on the whole “higher purpose” thing, Linda.

Which to me said, Linda, we are being totally honest about why we are here, and the answer is fun, not a deeper understanding/ whatever/ because God secretly put us on this website.

Then you countered by quoting a bunch of people in this thread who say they want to make a difference in the world, which I don’t think this thread is a fantastic example of, but I agree- atheists want to change the world positively. Your point appeared to be, Karen, you are wrong, these people have a higher purpose. The difference is that Karen was using the phrase differently- you are using it as if “higher purpose” means “wants to positively affect the world” whereas Karen was using “higher purpose” as “a spritual reason for our every action”.

At least, this is how I am reading all this.

The difference is that Karen was using the phrase differently- you are using it as if “higher purpose” means “wants to positively affect the world” whereas Karen was using “higher purpose” as “a spritual reason for our every action”.

I think you’re right, Jen, they are using the phrase differently. However, since Linda was the one who used the phrase originally in the first place, she has the right to determine what she meant by it. If anything it seems Karen (and perhaps you yourself) misunderstood her. You both appear to have read a “spiritual” meaning into a phrase that she did not intend that way.

Jen,
You are very perceptive. Yes, I believe your observations are correct.

And Karen,
You ARE doing something just by being open-minded and being receptive to other points of view. Thank you for that. A “higher purpose” does not always have to be something grandiose.

I find this very intersting, however. Atheists assume what the Christians mean based on what their previous knowledge of Christianity is. Christians assume what the atheists stand for by listening to a handful of people who are outspoken. This is true with other religions and races as well. We are VERY good at labeling people and ourselves. We fail to realize that every one of us have our own unique points of view regardless of which side we lean toward.

Not that I want to poach people from this blog, but a friend of mine here in New Zealand has a Christian Film Review site and is wanting to spark some discussion about the film The Golden Compass. Unfortunately you have to sign up to be able to comment, but if anyone wanted to have a (hopefully) intelligent conversation about the movie on a dedicated film site, head over to filmguide and sign up.

I enjoy the dielectric [italics mine] with this diverse group

Well, we certainly “spark” some good conversations, and we can be “shocking” at times, and some of us like to give a good “jolt” to true believers, and I for one have more than once had the lamp above my head “light up” by the insights of some of our regulars, and for all of my own blasphemous declarations I have yet to have a near miss by a “bolt of lighting.”

I find this very intersting, however. Atheists assume what the Christians mean based on what their previous knowledge of Christianity is.

Actually, I was reacting less from my previous experience with Christianity and more to some of the background you’ve given about yourself. Forgive me, I don’t recall your full story, but I thought I remembered that you’ve recently had something of an enormous shift in your spiritual outlook with one of the results being that you found this group.

When you mentioned a higher purpose, I was taking that in context of your own seeming quest for finding your higher purpose and imagining that you might be extrapolating that quest to some of us here. My comment was in that context. I apologize if it was misguided.

The movie, Pullman, from this new perspective, while he may call himself an atheist, he is teaching people what God is and what God is not. If only he had used the “God” label, people would learn heaps and heaps. But because he rejects the word, because of the stigma attached to it, people boycott his movie.

Humans are intriguing animals.

Karen,

I see… Yes, I’m always looking for a higher purpose in the “God” sense in everything that I do. And I am often shown bits and pieces of that picture. But I’m a believer, and I’m a hopeless (or hopeful) idealist. And yes, I did have a recent experience where I am now completely free to speak my mind the way it comes out. But that’s me. I absolutely do not expect others to see things the way I do.

I was merely stating my position and wondering what others thought.

But since we are on the subject, it does often frustrate me that the discussions here tend to go around and around in circles. I like looking for solutions instead of just anaylizing the problem endlessly and being in a permanent state of disagreement. But again, that’s just me…

Linda, give them Jesus. Read Marcus Borg. Or else give them post-modern theology like Rob Bell or Brian McLaren. They are removing the bad and keeping the good. It is the only way for a broken mind to heal. It actually needs Jesus, in an absolutely ironic twist.

But since we are on the subject, it does often frustrate me that the discussions here tend to go around and around in circles. I like looking for solutions instead of just anaylizing the problem endlessly and being in a permanent state of disagreement.

That’s the nature of blogs, I’m afraid. The goal of most blogs is not to bring everyone into agreement on a particular solution, but to introduce interesting topics and facilitate the resulting discussion. Discussion is messy and frustrating and it tends to go in circles, fly off on tangents and repeat itself.

I happen to love the discussion, frustrating as it can be at times. It’s valuable in and of itself, because it’s one of the things that makes us uniquely human. Looking for permanent solutions to life’s problems that apply to everyone is a notion more suited to my background in Christianity. I no longer find that interesting or useful.

Oops, I’m mixing threads. Elsewhere I wrote:

“Yes, my suggestions are biased, because my audience is biased.”

I suggest Borg not as something for the non-theists, I suggest it as something for the theists. Precisely because of his bias and approach, he is more palatable. Spong is too radical for the evangelicals to read. They shut down. Even Borg cannot be given to everyone. That’s where I suggest McLaren.

This is advice with regards to “what to give your fundamentalistic family”, which is my personal problem. So I’ve been searching for answers.

So… as a Christian, here’s a thought: in very general terms, God is equated to good, and Satan is equated to evil, correct? The outcome of The Chronicles of Narnia is that good overcomes evil, and yes, Lewis’s intentions were deeper than that, but for someone watching Narnia not knowing anything about Lewis and the underlying theme of the movie, all they see is a great movie that ends on a positive note.

The rumor regarding The Golden Compass is that in the third movie, whatever or whomever represents “God” is killed, thus “good” may possibly not prevail. Out of Christians, Muslims, Atheists, etc. – who doesn’t want good to prevail? I believe this is why some of you say that Christians are attacking the movie; they are worried that the film will promote a negative tone which our socity doesn’t need… that is the difference here. I don’t believe they are all scared or their “faith is delicate” as someone on this blog mentioned.

And FYI, the term “Christian” gets thrown around loosely these days. Just because someone says they’re a Christian doesn’t really mean it, right? It’s just like Al Gore telling everyone to go green but not really hopping on the band wagon himself. So don’t stereotype everyone who says they are a Christian – as one, I will respect your religious views, and believe it or not, others will too.

Take care…

I believe this is why some of you say that Christians are attacking the movie; they are worried that the film will promote a negative tone which our socity doesn’t need… that is the difference here. I don’t believe they are all scared or their “faith is delicate” as someone on this blog mentioned.

And this is why those same christians said absolutely nothing about, say, “Saw”, or “The Hills Have Eyes”? No, the ones attacking this movie are not worried about a negative tone hurting society, they are scared. This isn’t a guess on my part, it’s pretty clear in what say themselves. They are terrified that kids may like the movie enough to read the books, and be exposed to (gasp) ideas different from theirs.

whatever or whomever represents “God” is killed, thus “good” may possibly not prevail. Out of Christians, Muslims, Atheists, etc. – who doesn’t want good to prevail?

Only if you equate god and good, which not many around here do. I sure don’t.

And have you ever heard of “spoilers” and “spoiler alerts”? Granted, most people who care have read the books, but still, be a little more thoughtful, ok?

Mriana, you speak truth.

Mriana, wow, I see where you are coming from, but… you mentioned “if I read the Bible” which makes me think that you have knowledge of it, so let me quickly peel a layer off here: no, I nor most Christians (I rightly assume) don’t believe in human sacrifice, but the concept of Jesus dying on the cross is something totally different here – you can’t equivicate it to just sacrificing any human being, at least as a Christian. And if your rebuttal on that is “I’m not a Christian” so I do put them together, well, I guess you believe that Jesus at least was an actual person and not a made up story which is a whole other conversation.

Claire, sorry if I wasn’t thoughtful, I wasn’t meaning to be. Regarding your comments, I guess everyone has to pick and choose their battles in a sense; “Saw” doesn’t drill directly to the core of our beliefs and compromise it the way this movie does so they are just standing up for what they believe. But you’re right – after thinking about it further, there is a fear factor out there, but I think my point was that not every Christian is “fearful” of this. I personally believe in being knowledgable and respectful of other religious views so this film doesn’t scare me.

And Darryl, you are correct, good seems to rarely prevail in our society, and yes, Christians do cause bad things and can be very negative, but we are human as well and far from perfect. Regarding the “face value” issue, just a comment or two: for the sake of the discussion, we’ll try to stay in the realm of Christianity but to make the point more evident, it could go to any other topic such as politics or entertainment. If someone tells you they are a Christian and then you automatically assume that they are like every other Christian, then that probably isn’t the smartest assumption – there are many people who think just going to church makes them a Christian – wrong. Not all Republicans are conservative and not all musicians are good; if I start taking other’s professions at face value, that would make me naive.

I love Narnia and LOTR because they are good works of literature. However I am not Christian. Not in the least bit, yet I support them because they are great books. Just like the books in the His Dark Materials series.

These people back those stories because the authors were Christian. Not to mention the clear references to the Bible. Pullman is an atheist so they leech on to that fact hoping to give them something to do.

It’s the same thing with Harry Potter. And Jo isn’t even an Atheist. If it isn’t blatantly connected to the Bible it is trash in their minds. Trash/Satan’s work, trying to corrupt todays youth.

Honestly, if your child can be swayed that easily, maybe you should just keep them in a bubble. Because there are far worse things than them not sharing your religion.

I feel bad for the kids who want to read the books, and see the movie. Well, the kids with those boycotting parents. If a child wants to read, let them read. With all of the reality television and crap out there, I would gladly throw books at any child.

I truly would hate to get into a rant about how I think some parents brainwash their kids, but I am trying to keep calm until challenged.

Random story that has relevance:

I joined the support groups on Facebook. On Facebook you can see what groups your friends join. Well, right after I joined all of the support groups a ‘friend’ of mine joined all of the DO NOT support groups. Now I do not care if someone agrees with me on all things, but really? She has never spoken of the books or movie before. I know she is Christian but I have plenty of Christian friends who are fine with these books and will be seeing the film.

So, it really annoyed me that she needed to show me her Anti approach. I of course decided to ask her ‘why’ she felt that way. (I pretended that I didn’t know it was to piss me off) She has yet to answer. Probably because she only has the reasons they show on the profile pages of those groups. Which I must add, are pretty much all poorly written. Not to mention riff with factual errors.

Wow – my apologies, I had no idea I was going to ramble like that.

BS, you said,

“Saw” doesn’t drill directly to the core of our beliefs and compromise it the way this movie does so they are just standing up for what they believe.

How do you know the movie “The Golden Compass” drills directly to the core of your beliefs and compromises it? Have you seen the movie? It doesn’t open around her until Dec. 7. Assuming the movie even vaguely resembles the book, have you read the book?

Or are you just assuming the truth of the rumors that the more hysterical of your fellow Christians are spreading and believing? You talk about not being afraid, you talk about respecting other’s beliefs, but it would seem that you are operating by a fear driven belief about a belief, mainly that the author is a professed atheist and so therefore the story, whether in book or movie form must be a terrible threat that “drills to the core of your beliefs.”

You sound like Professor Harold Hill saying “Oh, we’ve got trouble in River City!”

You correctly say that it is naive to assume all members of any group are the same. I think that by getting caught up in the childish hysteria of these people who want to boycott the movie before anyone has even seen it, you are buying into that very same kind of naiveté.

Calling for the banning or boycotting of any book, movie or work of art before even seeing it is beyond foolish, childish and naive. It is the tyranny of fear and ignorance in action.

Actually I once heard my friend Brian McLaren give a talk where he compares Gollum’s worldview to the theology/spirituality of conservative Christians. (And Sam’s worldview to the theology/spirituality of emerging/progressive Christians.)

Who are the atheists? Gimli? Treebeard? Tom Bombadil?

To Christians, as you know, Jesus was not merely mortal, and thus the sacrifice was necessary and appropriate.

Ah, so you would use Jesus as lamb for sacrifice, BS, if the man existed today all because it has to be done. I like it better as mythology and personally, I wouldn’t do that to anyone and no, it was not necessary or appropriate- regardless if it is myth or reality.

You are obviously educated so I won’t lay out specifics how Christians think and what we believe, but you make it sound like we are ok with sacrificing humans, and that isn’t true and you know it – it’s not as cut and dry as you make it.

Yes, I am and even as a non-theist, I pride myself in that. I spent 20 years in the Episcopal Church, learning from some very good and very honest Biblical scholars who teach at the state uni and before that I’ve had the miserable experience of being among fundamentalist- on my mother’s side of the family. Be that as it may, I like to keep it all in the Jack Spong (See “Born of a Woman” and “Resurrection: Myth or Reality?”) and Bob Price’s school of thought. Which means, I don’t believe in a historical Jesus.

The only way Christians justify the human sacrifice is to turn the story into saying he is the son of God or rather God incarnate on earth and say it really happened. Funny thing though, so was Krishna was also God incarnate on earth, but we won’t go into that dispute since you probably know where I’m going with that. He was born of a woman- a human woman, a young woman at that.

I can explain many ways as how Jesus was human, but to put it simply, Paul doesn’t know of a virgin birth story, much less acknowledges one. So one could either say that makes him human or it doesn’t. The word almah in Isaiah 7:14 was miss translated. It is Hebrew for young woman, not virgin and the Greek just allowed for the Christian myth to evolve into something it wasn’t.

As for the crucifixion, the story is just that, a story, derived from other myths before it. It is a midrash of previous mythological stories- including the OT. So in that sense, yes, Jesus was not human. Thank goodness for great story tellers and human beings evolving- both morally and socially. Without that understanding than things really get messed up in the human mind.

Unfortunately, the midrash was lost to literalism- esp in the Christian tradition.

Richard – you’re jumping in just a little late here; I’m not boycotting it, and no, I haven’t read it, and no, I’m not saying the rumors are true – I’m just giving my 2 cents on why some people are doing that.

In Lord of the Rings? There are no atheists…

Really? I thought they were all atheists… Ok, maybe not really, but one of the reasons I enjoyed this when I first read it was the refreshing lack of religion. That was many years ago, of course, and I now know the author’s background, but I still don’t remember any conversation between the characters in the book where they discuss their views of the existence of a deity, so who knows? Not every character reflects the author’s own viewpoint.

Wonder what she’d say if I asked the question, “If Jesus had not died and were alive today, would you still kill him in order to have a human sacrifice for your sins?”

Mriana – that is a really good question, and I am now itching to run out, find a christian, and ask them. I would really like to know – have you asked this of many christians, and what did they say?

Only recently thought of it. If you beat me to it, let me know what you find out.

Will do! I might rephrase it without the human sacrifice angle (at first), but the real challenge will be finding the right person ask. My christian friends (the ones I’m seeing “The Golden Compass” with) are of the kind that don’t continually yap about their beliefs, and I mostly return the favor, so it can’t be them. Hmmm……

Claire said,

November 30, 2007 at 3:52 pm

Only recently thought of it. If you beat me to it, let me know what you find out.

Will do! I might rephrase it without the human sacrifice angle (at first), but the real challenge will be finding the right person ask. My christian friends (the ones I’m seeing “The Golden Compass” with) are of the kind that don’t continually yap about their beliefs, and I mostly return the favor, so it can’t be them. Hmmm……

Good luck. I guess I could grab the Pentecostal minister who owns and operates the BBQ resturant next door. Ya know, he has a “personal” relationship with Jesus and he’s gonna live forever, and what else did that nut say a while back? Oh who knows. He was high on those endorphines running through his frontal lobe from one of his religious services he had that night. Higher than a kite! Wonder what would happen if I asked him when he was high? 😆

Oh yes! He said as he leaned back swaying back and forth with a silly grin on his face, “I’m immortal! I’m immortal! I’m immortal!” My thought was, “Yeah, just wait and say that when some hot headed gang banger drives by and gets you! I don’t think you’ll be saying that.” The man is a nutbag! His answer will be interesting. Then again… I do live right next to his business. 😕 Maybe I’d better rethink that.

I guess I could grab the Pentecostal minister who owns and operates the BBQ resturant next door.

Depends – how good is his BBQ?

He said as he leaned back swaying back and forth with a silly grin on his face, “I’m immortal! I’m immortal! I’m immortal!”

Then again, usually best to be on good terms with the neighbors, especially when they are of dubious rationality. And you could, depending on how you followed it up, get really offensive with that question (and I mean that in a good way).

MikeC is sane.

Are you sure? 😀
😉

I hope this makes sense. I’m probably doing a much worse job of explaining it than Brian originally did. I wish I could point you to an article or something where he fleshes it out, but unfortunately I encountered it in a chapel talk by him at Bethel College several years ago and I don’t think there is a print version online anywhere.

it did that was pretty cool!

I went to see the movie tonight and loved it. I found it to be intelligent and very insightful. The movie was more anti-establishment than anti-God. I am not an atheist. I read some commentaries on Pullman and some excerpts from his book. I found the book offensive, personally, because he wanted to tell me how to think. I love God, but abhor religion. I don’t think religion has one thing to do with God, but I don’t want some freak telling me how to think. Religion is about control over the masses. Christianity/Judaism especially. I love Jesus too. Let me say this. No man has ever known any more about God than me or anybody else. This is what I find so offensive. I don’t claim to know one thing about God, but personally I choose to believe that everything that was, is and ever shall be is a reflection of God. I don’t know how God came to be. I just know that as sure as I am living he is an intimate part of everything. That’s my belief and I am entitled to believe, as I want to. The bible and Christianity does encourage free will, yet in the bible it talks about free will as the one thing that set aside Adam and Eve and their descendants from angels and mythical beings. Let’s take, the story in the Old Testament about Jacob and his brother Esau. Jacob and his mother were conniving tricksters, who stole what was meant for another. Why would I celebrate this? Yet the Jewish and Christian teaching does. Peopled didn’t just become corrupt today. The Devil sits ahead of the Christian Church, not Christ. It is corrupt, about money and control. The Christian Church has killed more people than any other group or institution. Jesus would not have wanted one death celebrated in his name. What I learned about him is that he was open minded and truly good. He was about charity, acknowledging females as compliments to males, not to be subjugated. Constantine a devil took all the real life teachings of a great man, a true son of god and merged it with pagan, traditions and beliefs. All of the words to describe Jesus and his life were the same words that once described Horus. He was known as the light of the world. I heard this over and over, as a child going to Catholic Mass. Then what is so horrible is that the humans of Europe were wiped out through open slaughter, as these beliefs were forced on them. Love of Jesus and Christ would have never brought slaughter on humanity. Santa Claus has nothing to do with Jesus. Christmas trees came about because of the belief that Horus could disguise himself as a trees. Tribes following those traditions in Germany would cut heads off of their warring enemy and hang them from pine trees as sacrifices. Over time, they stopped using heads and began using bulbs. Yet all over America, at Christmas time, you see nothing but pine trees decorated up. Look at where Christianity comes from. Many of the same people today that are crying about abortions are praising the death penalty. Jesus said turn the other cheek. The Christian Right isn’t worshipers of Christ. Jesus was a liberal. Europe took a horrible spiral downward when Christianity was forced upon them. Wise, intelligent human beings who were, knowledgeable on a great many things, were killed and destroyed for not practicing a forced belief. Most religions throughout the world, the holistic ones, anyway, were a natural progression of the people in particular areas beliefs. No harm in that. The harm is when one takes his beliefs and forces them upon another. You seen this happen in Europe and now Europe have gone about the world, forcing it on others. That’s nothing but the Devil. Beware of anyone who claims to know how and what God thinks. How is it that a Hebrew living 6,000 years ago knows what God was thinking? The Hebrew says in Genesis that Adam and Eve came before him as did many others. Most people around the world would agree that the Ten Commandments are good rules to live by. I would never disagree, but understand that they are human rules for how best to get along with others in society. Jesus preached only good. How is it that Christian people are so eager to go to war and destroy the Middle Easterner? Even if, he did blow up the World Trade Center, when Jesus told you to turn the other cheek? Let’s stop fooling ourselves. The church is a powerful manipulator, ran by the devil. He wants money, he wants power and ultimate control. How is that Godly? We know it isn’t Christly, at least not like what Jesus taught. Now we have the European and his descendants poised on nonsense and aiming it at others. There is some great wisdom in the bible, but it seems lost on humanity. We learn in the New Testament that judging others is wrong. We also learn that God has no use for material things. Afterall Everything in and out of time is the lord. I didn’t enjoy the excerpts taken from the book because it said that Pullman tried to tell the reader that God was basically all washed up. That sounds more like the Devil talking to me. I do wonder if maybe Pullman isn’t just poking fun at mans beliefs because it is provocative and because he is fed up with religion. I am fed up with religion too, but I could never think that God doesn’t exist. I hate what forced Christianity did to the European and subsequently to the world. I think the earliest brand of Christianity as celebrated in early Ethiopia and parts of the world near where Christ was born was real, authentic and pure. This Christianity was about challenging oneself to live a life close to the teachings of Jesus. The European has never came close to experiencing that, not with a blade to his throat.

If you haven’t read “His Dark Materials” yet, let me recommend skipping the third volume, “The Amber Spyglass”. Anything you imagine will probably be more satisfying than what you find there, and infinitely less likely to poison your favorable impression of what came before. (In particular, the portrayal of angels in the third volume sharply contradicts everything in the first two; they become more akin to spoiled children than transcendent “sentient architecture”.) My impression is that he had got tired of the whole concept by that point, and just wanted to get it finished and sent off.

Really, Pullman made a profound mistake introducing armored bears in the first volume; nothing could possibly compete with them for intrinsic interest. Once he got the armored-bear concept worked out, he might better have tossed the whole Milton notion in favor of spending the rest of his life writing about the bears. Toss the compass, toss the knife, toss the daemons, toss the Magisterium, toss the Dust. Armored bears! Do you hear me? Armored bears!