All the Things Girls Never Knew About Sex

If you ever get a chance to give a reading in public, here’s the piece for you.

It’s titled: “If sex feels so good, why do I feel so bad?”

… close your eyes and think of a guy who is really hot – someone you would really like to go out with. Now imagine yourself with him in a totally romantic situation. Check which one of the following was on your mind.

1. I thought about holding hands, dancing, walking in the moonlight, talking – something where we were connecting emotionally.

2. I thought about having sex with him.

If you checked number 1, you’re like most other women. Sex is not what you want. What you want is emotional intimacy. You want a relationship, and that’s good!

That’s right. You don’t want sex. You don’t. They just told you. So there.

If [guys] are after sex they will probably put pressure on you to get it.

I was under the impression that most men were not rapists. Clearly, I was wrong.

You want a relationship. You meet a great guy and start dreaming about holding hands, dancing, flowers and notes, you know … all the relationship stuff. The guy wants sex. He offers you the relationship only if you will give him sex. You know the line, “If you love me, prove it by having sex with me.” Wanting the relationship, you give in to the sex.

Geez… what is the dating history of this author? And who actually says that line!?

And just when you thought it couldn’t get worse…

Relationships can become a blurred memory. Unless, of course, you are left with something to remember him by – like a disease.

You’re welcome, ladies 😉

You may say, “Not me, I have only had sex with a few guys, and I really liked them.” But if you have sex with every guy you like now, how many guys will you have had sex with by the time you’re ready to settle down?

Correct answer: 17.

If you’ve already had sex, though, it’s not too late for you! Next time you’re out with a guy and he hits on you, keep this in mind:

[You can enjoy] the look on the guy’s face when you say, “No! I believe in myself, I have plans for my future. I have respect for myself and if you don’t I guess we don’t have a lot to talk about … thanks for the great evening … bye!” Don’t be surprised if he calls and asks you out again – guys like women who respect themselves!

They forgot to mention that you should throw a glass of water in the guy’s face for full effect.

What on earth is that second date going to be like…?

First, a movie. Next, castration.

(Thanks to Bjorn for the link!)

[tags]atheist, atheism, abortion, dating, relationship[/tags]

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Shalini

Pre-marital sex is fun.

Case settled.
Karen

You’re welcome, ladies 😉

ROTFLMAO! You’re wicked, Hemant! 🙂

If you checked number 1, you’re like most other women. Sex is not what you want. What you want is emotional intimacy. You want a relationship, and that’s good!

Who IS this chick? And where are these majority of women who aren’t interested in sex!? Not the women I know, that’s for sure. Most of them are obsessed! 🙂
Epistaxis

Unless, of course, you are left with something to remember him by – like a disease.

Post-traumatic stress disorder is a disease. Some might say pregnancy is too.
Jen

Internet, let me tell you about my sex fantasties. Not only are they real, not only do they happen- sometimes at night, when I have no control over them!- but sometimes I have romantic fantasies, and sometimes sexual fantasties. Sometimes I have both over the same person. I know, Internet, I can’t believe that either, but it turns out I am a complex person as opposed to a conservative stereotype of my entire gender!

What’s really strange, Internet, is that I always thought I had sex because I wanted to have sex, not because I wanted to be loved. It turns out instead I completely conform to gender stereotypes! Thanks, Terrible Writer, for letting me know the truth!
Jen

Internet, it also turns out I can’t help but double post. Sorry, Internet.
C. L. Hanson

Ick. I’m still pissed off about being indoctrinated in this type of crap — that a girl is worthless if she either (a) has no boyfriend or (b) has sex with her boyfriend. And the idea that women only want a relationship and men only want sex (thus sex always represents a woman giving the man the upper hand) makes me want to vomit. Particularly putrid is the conclusion that to you “respect yourself” means always saying “NO!”

For a light story about what it’s like to me a girl immersed in this type of message, see Youth Conference. For an alternate persepctive, see yes means yes and my favorite feminist post sex on the first date. I’d like to also link you to my fabulous romantic atheist love scene, but unfortunately (according to my posting schedule) it won’t be up until March or April of 2008.
Enrico

“First, a movie. Next, castration.”

Ah ah ah!
Lakin

I know that majority of women aren’t interested in sex, as am I, and guys are all up on them trying to get them to have sex with them. I get sick and tired of it so much. I think that if a guy is pressuring you or someone you know, such as a friend, and they aren’t interested you should try to help.
Mercredi

…and numbers 1 and 2 are mutually exclusive exactly how? Sex isn’t just about procreation for humans, it’s also a pairbonding activity. That is, it’s a natural part of most healthy adult romantic relationships.

I want to know why we don’t see essays like this aimed at teenage boys. All the abstinence-’til-marriage stuff is generally focused on explaining how _women_ who have premarital sex are like duct tape with someone else’s hair on it, or a donut with all the frosting licked off, or are dirty and undesirable in some other way. Last I checked, it took at least two to dance the mattress gavotte, and in at least 90% of the time at least one of the participants will be male. So if premarital tangos are for whatever reason unacceptable, shaming girls and women is not the way to go about stopping them.

And if anyone (of any sex or gender identity, not just cis-men) ever says “if you really loved me, you’d have sex with me” to pressure their romantic partner into unwanted sex, that’s abusive, and needs to be called out as such. It should NOT be dismissed as just “guys being guys,” which is what this article seems to try to do.
Mriana

Oh good grief! Where is this person from? Cutsie Cutsie Land? Come on! Not that dating has to lead to sex, but good grief! This is too much. I feel like I just finished a book entitled “Dating Tips for Young Teens”. 🙄
kristi

That’s right. You don’t want sex. You don’t. They just told you. So there.

Wow. I did not know that! I can’t wait to tell my husband.
stogoe

Jen,

Sometimes, when a comment is as awesome as yours was, it’s just too awesome to be held in one single post. That’s when the Internet gives you a very special present – the double post. Don’t be ashamed that your post was too awesome to be contained.
Patti Miller

Abstinence-only curriculum, anyone????
Linda

Oh good grief! Where is this person from?

It’s not just that person. It’s the predominant thinking in the “moral” and “religious” society.

God, I hate sounding like a broken record, but religion teaches guys not to respect girls who like sex. And that same religion teaches girls to feel shame when their bodies respond to natural desires.

And the religious leaders and other people in authority themselves (in my opinion and from what they’ve said) could not uphold this impossible task of following the law or moral values. Then they turn around and try to teach, “I’ve learned from my lesson, and now I know it’s bad and wrong. I forbid you to do what comes natural.” Either that or they completely deny their own past. I see this as a complete hypocrisy. Please… Give me a break! That’s why kids are resorting to loopholes to still have sex but not consider it “real” sex.

I see this even in the world outside of church. We don’t think we’re under the religious rule when we reject God, but we most certainly still are… The breakdown in communication between the oppressor and the oppressed continue on and on.
Mriana

Well the religion certianly doesn’t help victims of anorexia, that is for sure.
Stephen

Well, I’m a college sophomore, so I still have distinct memories of abstinence-only sex education in middle school. That’s exactly what our official educational literature was like – guys are all buffoons who just want to get laid, and girls have to – HAVE TO – resist them. The books always listed numerous tips for saying no, and never once entertained the possibility that the girl might actually want to have sex. Amazingly, it managed to be sexist towards both genders at the same time.

That really is the crux of it for me – what Jen said is absolutely true, and it works in both directions. Abstinence-only education basically paints a caveman portrait of something that’s supposed to be natural and enjoyable. Is that the impression we want our kids to have of sex? Even if we’re intent on making them abstain till marriage (which we shouldn’t be, but whatever), giving them those kinds of impressions about sex is incredibly short-sighted. Not that middle schoolers are really going to give a shit what their health textbook says, so I shouldn’t worry too much. But those same societal attitudes do affect people outside the classroom, so it is something that needs to be put to rest.

I feel like I just finished a book entitled “Dating Tips for Young Teens”.

© 1955
Julie

God, I hate sounding like a broken record, but religion teaches guys not to respect girls who like sex. And that same religion teaches girls to feel shame when their bodies respond to natural desires.

You know, I was brought up by dang dirty hippies who taught me to love my body and that sex could be fun. I have to say, I totally bought that line of thinking. I exceeded Hemant’s projected 17 partners before settling down. Here’s what’s weird, though. A woman who loves her body and loves sex isn’t doesn’t always convert her dates to that enlightened belief. I actually did get that weird reaction from a few of my dates, who sort of lost respect for me. Dummies.
Polly

Internet, it also turns out I can’t help but double post. Sorry, Internet.

That’s OK, sometimes a person gets to have Multiple-Posts – just don’t tell the writer of the article in the OP.
Cade

I liked this quote from the page.

Make a list of the character traits that are important to you – honesty, loyalty, commitment, kindness, etc. Work on developing these things – they are what make you unique.

Because nobody likes being honest, loyal, commited, or kind. They make you unique.
valhar2000

Notice how they keep saying what “many women” want out of relationships. The kind of authoritarian person that this piece is aimed for is the kind of person for whom numbers make truth, so telling them that “most” women want physical intimacy BUT NOT INTERCOURSE will make them accept the idea that that is what they themselves should want.

The article is not very subtle in its manipulative ways.
Jen

Stephan, I totally remember abstinence-only sex ed, as a freshman in high school- before that, we girls were only to know about our periods. It was the worst class ever, in part because my teacher was a bit of a nut, but mostly because it was all lies and manipulation. I came away from that class knowing:

1. There are 28 ways a condom can break, and there is a 30% chance of breakage, and HIV can get through condoms, and doctors wear two gloves, so why aren’t you? Oh yea, because you want HIV. Slut.

2. The more people you sleep with, the less you will have the ability to care for any of them, as your ability to love is lessened.

3. People who have sex before marriage are kind of dirty and probably deserve for their spouse to make them feel bad.

4. There are Women and Men and they are exactly as described here, with no variation or individualism

5. There are probably no gay people, and what’s abortion?

6. Pregnant girls deserve to suffer, and will probably just want to kill themselves.

7. You will probably become an STD farm

8. Men like bisexual women (seriously, I had never heard this one until some classmates brought it up)

Good times. Oh, Illinois public schools, when will you stop failing your kids?
Julia

After reading all of this, I’m so scared to have children and have to worry about their health education. Am I going to have to become a home-schooling nut? Probably….

For the record, I went to Catholic school and even they were more liberal with their sex education than the public schools you all are mentioning. Scary!
Karen

2. The more people you sleep with, the less you will have the ability to care for any of them, as your ability to love is lessened.

Wow, they teach this as part of public school sex ed class? That’s straight out of the sermon our high school pastor gave at winter retreat years ago! He put a more spiritual spin on it, but it was the same bald assertion without any kind of evidence to back it up.

What if the more people you sleep with, the better you can care for them and your ability to love is multiplied rather than diminished? It’s like we all have this very limited capacity to love others and we need to hoard it because it gets used up quickly. Where does that come from?
Should I Really Use My Real Name?

I was under the impression that most men were not rapists. Clearly, I was wrong.

I think you’ve been drinking too much coffee Hemant, since when does ‘putting pressure on’ equate to being a rapist?

Ah, it’s probably just the journalistic integrity of this site, and not an attempt to use emotionally charged statements to debunk someones ideas…
Razor Mick

My dad raised us, and even though he wasn’t a hippie like Julie’s folks, he taught us to embrace all aspects of life.

Since I’m still single, and not even thinking about changing that any time soon, then I’m sure I’ve had sex with more partners then any of you.

What’s wrong with having sex simply because it feels good?

And no, I’ve never been pregnant, and I’ve never gotten an STD.

And unlike some people, I don’t feel the need to write supposedly authortative posts on how others should act. So “Should I really use my real name” the answer is YES. Unless you’ve got something to hide…
Bjorn Watland

Here’s something I think this education embeds into people. They equate sex with something that is dirty, foul, wicked, something forbidden. It’s almost taught that everyone in the world would be better off celibate. You develop this mantra of “Sex is bad, sex is bad,” and have to suddenly switch from sex is bad and wicked, to “I’m married now, and should have sex with my partner.” But does this reaction to the act as something bad go away once the vows hit? If you enjoy sex, is that ungodly? If you have sex with your partner, should it always be for procreation? Is having an orgasm violating the Beatitudes?
Jen

What if the more people you sleep with, the better you can care for them and your ability to love is multiplied rather than diminished? It’s like we all have this very limited capacity to love others and we need to hoard it because it gets used up quickly. Where does that come from?

I swear to Richard Dawkins, here’s what happened. We sat alphabetically in the class, and I was in the first row. My teacher came over to me and put a Band Aid on my arm, which was resting on my desk. Now, my arms are fairly hairy, as these things go, so I knew this was not going to end well! He then rips it off, and asks me if it hurt. Of course I answer yes. Then he does this about three more times, and asks me if it hurts the same each time. No, I answer, while thinking about punching him in the crotch. The exercise was like losing love, he explains, and each time we give a piece of ourselves sexually, it hurts less and less each time. This, apparently, is not a good thing.

Public education, people. Your tax dollars paid for that Band Aid.
Mriana

What he was teaching was B.S.
Stephen

Public education, people. Your tax dollars paid for that Band Aid.

My tax dollars can pay for Band Aids all day long. I just don’t want them paying for bizarre-ass analogies that bear no resemblance to reality.

Here’s something I think this education embeds into people. They equate sex with something that is dirty, foul, wicked, something forbidden.

That’s an attitude that comes from modern Christian conservatism, but the abstinence-only education does help perpetuate it (since abstinence-only education is, after all, the brainchild of Christian conservatives). Still, I suppose it’s not as bad as Victorian England.

I think you’ve been drinking too much coffee Hemant, since when does ‘putting pressure on’ equate to being a rapist?

The stereotype of rape, which I’ll call “back alley rape,” is certainly a violent crime, but rape by its legal definition is not necessarily violent. Having sex with a woman without her consent is rape – simple as that. That means that if you and a woman are on her bed doing everything but, and she says no, and you still do it, that does indeed qualify as rape. So yes, “putting pressure on” can certainly count. Now, whether or not the act I just described *really* counts as rape depends more on whether or not the woman presses charges afterwards, whereas back alley rape is always rape, needless to say, yet remains sadly underreported.
Greta Christina

Moot point, since I’m out of the dating scene. But if I were going out with a woman — or a man — who said they didn’t want to have sex until marriage, I’d suddenly remember an urgent appointment elsewhere, and would be out of there so fast it’d make your head spin.

And I wouldn’t consider it “pressure.”

Of course people have the right to have sex on their own timetable, including waiting until marriage. But other people also have the right to their own sexual timetables, including wanting sex fairly early in the relationship. And saying, “I want sex, you don’t, so I don’t think this is going to work” isn’t the crime of the century. It’s not cool to do it in a way that’s pressuring or manipulative; but being clear about what you do and don’t want in a relationship is reasonable and healthy — including what you do and don’t want regarding sex.

P.S. Put me in the “way more than 17” camp. Probably somewhere between 50 and 100, depending on how you define “sex.” Some bad experiences, of course; but no pregnancies, no STDs, and on the whole a lot of happy good times. Having sex with lots of different people was how I learned what I liked and didn’t like in bed. Liike, duh.

P.P.S. On the “waiting until marriage” topic, check out this heartbreaking letter to Scarleteen (the “sex advice for teenagers” website): We waited for marriage… but it wasn’t worth the wait. Exhibit A on why waiting until marriage can be a truly awful idea.
OzAtheist

Linda said
That’s why kids are resorting to loopholes to still have sex but not consider it “real” sex.

aahhh, the old Bill Clinton defense.

Problem being that there is even less information provided to children/teens on the possible health risks associated with other forms of sex. At least 1 survey found 20% of teens having oral sex compared to only about 15% having ‘real’ sex.

I’m shocked and appalled what some of you people (Jen, Stephen) were taught in schools. Out of interest, did they mention anything about oral sex?
Karen

I swear to Richard Dawkins,

🙂

The exercise was like losing love, he explains, and each time we give a piece of ourselves sexually, it hurts less and less each time. This, apparently, is not a good thing.

Oh brother. And did he give you any basis for this bold assertion – surveys, studies, Dr. Ruth? – or did he just state it as fact? This does not ring true to me at all, and I’d like to know where it comes from. Other than the “stock statements useful in scaring kids out of premarital sex” handbook, of course.
Allison

Okay, Jen, your story about the class scares me, as I have small children. I hate to think that their girlfriends later on would be told essentially to close their eyes and think of England later when they’re married, or that the expectation of them is that they’d pressure a girl into something she’s not ready for or doesn’t want. Where I grew up parents used to be able to opt out of having their kids take sex ed if they wanted to for religious reasons. I wonder if I could do that with abstinence only. I’ve heard that it’s bad enough now that some of the more liberal churches have decided to run their own sex ed classes……

But if I were going out with a woman — or a man — who said they didn’t want to have sex until marriage, I’d suddenly remember an urgent appointment elsewhere, and would be out of there so fast it’d make your head spin.

I’m there with you!! I’ve been happily married for 12 years, and I think it would’ve been a really bad idea not to take a “test drive” or, well, many. And no, having had multiple partners has not lessened my ability to care for others. I wasn’t quite raised by dirty hippies and I had an uncle who died of AIDS when I was a teen (that scared me silly for a while), but still, this is just ridiculous.

1. I thought about holding hands, dancing, walking in the moonlight, talking – something where we were connecting emotionally.

If you dance with one guy it doesn’t make other, later, dances any less special. And……..sex is one aspect of a beautiful, loving relationship, and another way of enhancing and maintaining emotional attachments. Have these people learned nothing from the bonobos? I guess not. They’re just animals, after all.

Relationships can become a blurred memory. Unless, of course, you are left with something to remember him by – like a disease.

Um, I still remember many of those “casual sex” relationships quite fondly, thank you very much. Why wouldn’t I? Those were good times!
Reed Braden

I was under the impression that most men were not rapists. Clearly, I was wrong.

Clearly…

Geez… what is the dating history of this author? And who actually says that line!?

My ex-ex-ex-boyfriend used it. I laughed at him and knocked over an open gallon-jug of roach killer on my way out of his apartment.
Greta Christina

The exercise was like losing love, he explains, and each time we give a piece of ourselves sexually, it hurts less and less each time. This, apparently, is not a good thing.

The more I think about this, the madder it makes me.

Yes, my first break-up hurt like major surgery. It felt like life or death.

Subsequent break-ups were less painful. Each one hurt less.

And this was an EXCELLENT thing.

Because — among about a zillion other reasons — it taught me that breaking up wasn’t the end of the world. It taught me that I could not only survive, but be happy and fulfilled, on my own.

And that gave me the room to stop going out with losers just so I wouldn’t be single. It gave me the room to stay single for years, while I got my head screwed on straight and figured out what I wanted from a relationship, and even if I wanted a relationship at all. It gave me the room to get into a relationship because I wanted to, not because I needed to.

I hate what these kids are being taught. I want to smack someone. This is like the worst 1950s anti-sex propaganda ever. Didn’t we move past this already?
Joel Sax

This is like the worst 1950s anti-sex propaganda ever. Didn’t we move past this already?

Straight on into the 1960s and the sexual revolution when a girl couldn’t say no because it was uncool?

I just wish we’d find the middle ground and stay there. Yes, when I want it and you want it. No otherwise.
JeffN

I think It Should be the parents responsibility to teach there kids about the birds and the bees sort of speak. and as to the issue of premarital sex if we can’t control or impulses what makes us any different then the animals aside from the fact that where not running after the first dame or dude guy or doll and getting it on in the middle of wherever like a dog. We all like sex but i think theirs something to be said for restraint and common sense.
C. L. Hanson

But if I were going out with a woman — or a man — who said they didn’t want to have sex until marriage, I’d suddenly remember an urgent appointment elsewhere, and would be out of there so fast it’d make your head spin.

And I wouldn’t consider it “pressure.”

Absolutely. Sex is not some sort of trivial nice-to-have in a relationship. If some guy believes in “waiting for marriage” then we’re incompatible. That’s a deal-breaker for me. I talked about this in my sex on the first date post.

Here’s what’s weird, though. A woman who loves her body and loves sex isn’t doesn’t always convert her dates to that enlightened belief. I actually did get that weird reaction from a few of my dates, who sort of lost respect for me.

That brings up another bonus of the “sex on the first date” technique — it eliminates those guys before you waste too much time on them. If the guy is mentally separating women into “virgin” and “whore” categories (and can’t fathom having a relationship with a “whore” because he doesn’t “respect” her), then I sort of lose respect for him too. Well, not just sort of.

And to those who say that the above scenario is bad for me because the asshole guy “gets what he wants,” I say: “so what?” I get what I want too. That should be obvious to anyone who doesn’t think that women are giving up a little of their desirability (like band-aid losing stickiness or a donut with the frosting licked off) by having sex.
Mriana

I just wish we’d find the middle ground and stay there. Yes, when I want it and you want it. No otherwise.

The pendelum always swings to center.
JeffN

Mriana said

The pendulum always swings to center.

In a healthy society yes. I so pose the real question is what is a healthy society and where is center.
Julie

if we can’t control or impulses what makes us any different then the animals aside from the fact that where not running after the first dame or dude guy or doll and getting it on in the middle of wherever like a dog.

That’s hot.
Mikayla

1. I thought about holding hands, dancing, walking in the moonlight, talking – something where we were connecting emotionally.

2. I thought about having sex with him.

Why is it a question of either/or? I would be thinking of both! Nothing puts me in the mood like a nice romantic walk in the moonlight 😉
koz

OMG, Hemant. “You’re welcome ladies” is the funniest junk I’ve read all month!
Mriana

JeffN said,

November 15, 2007 at 8:53 am

Mriana said

The pendulum always swings to center.

In a healthy society yes. I so pose the real question is what is a healthy society and where is center.

This is quite true, Jeff.
Loren Petrich

Does anyone know much more about what Allison had described, about how some of the more liberal churches starting sex-education programs to fill in the gaps of public-school “sex education”?

And why aren’t those churches talking about their sex-education programs? Are they afraid that the fundies will come after them and attack them?
kellym78

Just FYI, the Atheist News and Views site has this posted, but it has no quote boxes or marks or anything…so after I read it there, I was just about ready to come over here and pitch a fit. Luckily, things were not as they seemed! Good post. It’s nice to see women coming out and actually admitting that we want sex, too. (Maybe even more than some of you men. 😉 )
AnonyMouse

Uhh… yeah. See, I wanted holding hands and dancing, then snogging and some X-rated material. He’s *hot*. Tell me why I’m supposed to waste my time *talking* to him?

Geeze. Yes, I do want to develop a lasting relationship with a guy. There will be talking and hand-holding and all kinds of nice, clean stuff. But that is for the nice, smart, not-quite-so-attractive, marriage-material guys. Hot ones are for mad bunnyluvz.