What Do You Wish Your Parents Would Say To You?

I wish they would just accept it. My mother is still saying things like “it’s good you’re questioning your spiritual side,” while I’ve been an atheist for years. She also will often say things like “it’s normal for teenagers to reject their parents’ values when they go to college,” which upsets me. I guess I wish she would just stop saying those words.

Speaking to the person in question, I think you will be surprised by how your parents react to this. First of all, you are their child, and that is more important to them than anything else (or it should be). Now, the reactions from other members of your family, friends, and acquaintances may be different. Plus I understand that apostasy in the LDS church is pretty serious.

A cousin and I found ourselves on the same side of the issue (atheism) during a late-night conversation/debate with some other members of my religious Christian family over the last Christmas holiday. At first, they all wanted to talk about it one-on-one. Basically they were trying to bring me back into the fold. That is understandable from their position, because they love me and are seriously concerned for my ‘eternal soul’. However, that all changes once they understand your convictions (and get their apologetics blown out of the water), and I have sensed a definite change in atmosphere around me. That feeling that some of them are just humoring you is pretty upsetting. It is hard accept the fact that members of your family stop caring for you and start humoring you because of silly prejudices.

What I mean to say is that those who really love you will love you no matter what, and those that don’t really love you but love(d) things you agree(d) with them about will stop faking it. And that is fine with me.

Short answer: I really don’t care.

Her is my Catholic mother’s take in a nutshell: “ok, atheism is ok for you since you are a math professor and most math/science types are atheists. But you ought to introduce your daughter to religion; after all it didn’t hurt you.”

Still, I get along great with my mom; she came out of the depression with a 4’th grade education and did right by me. And she still reads and follows current events, and is rather mellow by theist terms.

I am a grown up and therefore not dependent on parental approval for everything.

Although I have not yet “come out the closet” so to speak, my family is an “ignore it and it will go away” kind of family. On a side note, I hope I didn’t exceed my limit on quotation marks.

I know my parents will never say that it’s ok not to believe. They are focused too much on the afterlife. I can imagine the guilt of coming out atheist to a group of people who are expecting you to be the best Mormon you can be so everyone can be in the Celestial Kingdom together, and have picnics, or raise spirit children, or whatever it is they do there.

What I have liked most, because I can’t change the way my parents view the world directly, is when they ask questions. Then it usually ends up turning to morality or ethics, which is something we both agree on. Plus, it gives them a chance to understand how I feel.

“What do you think happens when you die?” “I think that’s it, you’re dead. But you can try to make an impact, leave your impression as memories, good deeds, maybe art work as sort of an echo of our existence.” “But isn’t that depressing that you won’t see your family or pets after you die?” “Of course, but that doesn’t change reality. Just because I want the sky to turn green doesn’t make it so.” “But, wouldn’t you rather live with the hope of an afterlife?” “To me, it’s intellectually dishonest. While it’s something I’d like, I haven’t been convinced that there is an afterlife. Maybe there is, and I’m wrong, but I can’t tell based on what I know for now.” “Well, you don’t believe in it yet anyway” “Yes, mom”

Maybe tell them you are open to evidence. Mormons love “investigators.” Just say you are searching, as Joseph Smith was. Go off into a glade, and pray orally for the first time. When nothing happens, no personages appear, let your parents know, but that you’ll keep trying.

“I respect you and your decisions. And I’ll be praying for you.”

The first sentence, well that’s self-explanatory. The second sentence reiterates that they love me and want the best for me. Because, in their belief system, you pray for a loved one you feel isn’t doing well and who you want to help. You pray when you have hope for them. You pray to bring yourself peace. And I would want all those things from and for my family members who are believers. I want them to have peace and not to worry about me constantly. I want them to love me and care for me.

It’s almost as if prayer is their sincerest way of caring for me. So, I accept and welcome it. Regardless of the fact that I don’t believe in it.

I wish they would say,

“You’re right. Reason is better than faith.”

I never really realized just how important it was until I became an atheist. I still love my parents, and they still love me, but there is this huge divide between us. The things I find interesting, the things I’m passionate about have no ‘pull’ at them. It’s more than that, though, because I’m passionate about something they think is wrong, if not evil.

I don’t know how it’ll work out.

I wish my parents had believed in God. I want a cool moment of revelation and the drama of coming out. My parents and their diabolical permissiveness has scarred me deeply.

From a friend: “I have more respect for/confidence in Muslims, at least they believe in god.” And this is post 9-11.

I have nothing specific against Muslims, but if one is going to be bigotted, why pick on the non-faithful?

Because an intelligent, sane, happy and moral person who does not believe in God is far more threatening to believers than an intelligent, sane, happy and moral person who believes in the wrong God. It’s about their not wanting to face the absurdity of belief in general.

I just wish my Evangelical Fundamentalist mother (62) and aunt (67) could just say it’s OK to not have the same belief as we do, instead of going into hysterics and act as though the inquistitions have begun again. Everytime I try to say something, it’s as though the inquistitions have started all over again. Then I start wishing I just played along and even attempted to say anything.

BTW, Jonathan, telling my relatives that I want to hear it is OK, is like stating heresy to them. It just doesn’t seem to work and they get verbally brutal to an apostate, which is the opposite of what they say they believe.

Jonathan Blake

I can’t promise any miracles,

tee-hee!

Somehow what you said sounds like sorrow and even a bit whimpy, if not apologetic. Keeping a “stiff upper lip” is another odd trait in our family. Yes, we are decendents of the Brits.

Yet it’s OK to go to extremes to attempt to convert people. No it doesn’t make sense.

what words do you wish your parents would say to you about your atheism?

from an atheist son of catholic parents …

how about: “yeah …… we don’t really believe any of that crap either … just don’t tell your grandmother …
oh and we’d still like you to join us at christmas mass, though.”

If I’d venture a guess, I’d say a significant majority of church-goers in my hometown lack belief in it … they’re just too afraid to admit it publicly.
in addition, there’s a significant amount of ignorance regarding what they profess to believe in the first place … me the atheist having read more of the bible and history than they …

I’ve rethought my answer a bit and I admit that I wasn’t completely truthful.

Here is what I wish my mom would say: “you know son, the idea of their being some deity that wants to condemn his creation but then relents because his son wants to come to earth, be brutally murdered, and return as a zombie” makes no sense at all.

You know, not so long ago, people routinely died of diseases that we commonly cure or arrest now. The reason for that is that people no longer ascribe things that they don’t understand to supernatural causes but instead seek a solution within nature.

You are right; this theism is completely absurd, and I’ve decided to become an atheist too!”

But, I am not holding my breath. 🙂

Having escaped the Morg myself, I know that the guy knows that his parents will most likely never accept him. I don’t know if he’ll actually be disowned, unless he’s gay too, but he’ll never have any peace/acceptance from Morg family since every member is a missionary.

As for what my parents could say to me, I’m really waaaaay beyond that point in my life.
As for that Morg (you will be assimilated) thing, many of the ex-morg sites are full of Atheists. Don’t hesitate to reach out until you feel you have your own inner support. http://www.exmormon.org/boards/w-agora/w-agora.php3?site=exmobb&bn=exmobb_recovery

A little off topic but just to make things clear your parents are not Christians. The Bible says to evaluate everything to see if it is of God by its fruit, good tree = good fruit; a bad tree can never bear good fruit. You are the fruit of your parents and you are an atheist, correct?

My Dad is an atheist and he never even mentioned the name Jesus to me ever. LDS believes Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, You parents are polytheist. I am a monotheist. Your parents believe in a different god then I do.

Ultimately, God will decide who He will allow in heaven, that is up to Him. I cannot tell if you or anyone will go to hell or not. What I can tell you is what the Bible says. In Rev 21:8 it says all liars will have their part in the lake of fire. If you lie, I can tell you according to the Bible, you will go to hell but God made a way so you don’t have to spend eternity in hell. That doesn’t mean I have the power to send people to hell.

Let me ask you this if we were to only read the Bible (God’s word) there would be no mormonism, correct?

According to your parents Church, The third article of faith says this: “We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.”

You see, one of the basic differences between Christianity and Mormonism aside from the dealings with God and His nature, in his how we are forgiven of our sins. Yes, we are to keep his Commandments, but we are not saved by keeping those Commandments. The Bible does not say that eternal life is dependent on whether or not you endure. 1 John 5:13 says that we can know right now that we have eternal life. The third article of your Church contradicts the book of Romans and Ephesians and Galatians which all teach justification by faith alone.

Which laws and ordinances on the Mormon Church you must obey in order to have your sins forgiven. Can you please tell me? Justification is our legal declaration by God upon on us, sinners, that we are declared righteous in His sight. Sanctification is the process we go through and our lives where the Holy Spirit makes us more like Jesus.

James goes against mormonism also as in James 2:19 “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”

Not even James agrees with your parents polytheistic views. Yes works count because we are grateful and the Bible talks about the rewards in heaven (but that is now why we do it) but NOT salvation. There is a huge difference.

Revelation 1:8 ” I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.” (Red letters)

A polytheistic view is breaking the first and the second commandment (make a god to suite yourself), correct?

I lovingly request that you read Romans chapters 3-5 and Galatians 3-5 It is these chapters that speak of this issue. I hope that if you read them you will see that the third article on your parents Church is in contradiction to God’s word.
Please understand that I am not here to bash on you. I believe you and your parents are lost and I do not want you to go to hell. What ever I am, I am by the Grace of God. I want you to find the real and loving Jesus who can fill your heart with His salvation.

K,

I think I’ve managed to come to an understanding with my Mormon family. It is possible to get some people to keep the member missionary work to a very low hum. 🙂

Dan’s back.

As an agnostic, I find myself in a difficult place. “But you have to choose one or the other position” is the line I get from believers and from atheists alike. There’s no “it’s ok not to make up your mind on this issue. Focus on what is important like being a good person.” If this were an issue with my parents, that is what I’d like them to say.

I dunno, Jonathan. Unless you’re constantly bringing up Atheism or telling them they shouldn’t go to church, they should respect you enough to not, “hum,” at all. I have to bring up words like, “brainwashing,” and, “Why do they get to hum and you have to grin and bear it?” Do you feel that you’re in the wrong or bad for not being in the Morg so you don’t deserve better treatment? That is the Morg mindset so if it’s still in yer melon, you need to break the chains, ya know?

Jonathan Blake said,

November 2, 2007 at 3:49 pm

Mriana,

What you want to say to your family probably isn’t exactly what I suggested, and it isn’t in your own voice. I offer it as an example to get across the idea. You have to discover for yourself what you need. Instead of acceptance, do you want respect for your right to believe as you choose?

Would you like to talk to my family? Trust me, the moment you say, “I’m an atheist” watch out, but more power to you if you can take on Evangelical Fundamentalist extremists.

Please understand that I am not here to bash on you. I believe you and your parents are lost and I do not want you to go to hell. What ever I am, I am by the Grace of God. I want you to find the real and loving Jesus who can fill your heart with His salvation.

Dan, I’ve read the Bible, I’ve even studied it with various scholars and Episcopal ministers- yes those like Spong, so I am not ignorant of it and probably know and understand more of it than you do. Currently Religious studies is my minor- one does not have to be religious to have a minor or major in religious studies. I even have discussions with Robert Price, one of my heros, who attends the Episcopal Church, is a Humanist and an atheist. So, I have and do study with well educated people. I am well versed in Christianity, a lifetime of studying it, and know a little about several other religions and many different earlier myths that are very much similar.

Request what you want, but I have probably read it many times over and studied it in depth. I could probably teach you more than you want to know or even hear. Don’t just assume that if someone doesn’t believe what you do that they don’t know your book.

Of course, I think I have said that before. What I’ve said probably goes for many others here too- not the same intense study of it, but a lifetime of knowing what it says and alike.

Ohh Dan the troll infamous for being and obstinate, ignorant hypocrite… some reputation.

He is a Christian pastor who harasses atheists on the Internet with his pathetic apologetics… He has been IP banned from at least one blog for lying.

Don’t waste your time reading his posts. He just likes to bait people into debates where he spits his apologetics and Bible verses (real influential to an atheist… lol) and then completely ignores the rebuttals.

You can see an overview of what he did over at the just click here here and here. It’s really pretty entertaining.

As I expected his response was more about how Mormon’s aren’t Christians than about this kid’s situation. Dan, it wouldn’t matter if he was Muslim or Wicca, that has nothing to do with this thread. So please take your hate-mongering ignorance elsewhere.

I’m lucky, I guess, because neither of my parents was a theist and I had no religious upbringing to speak of. My mother was Catholic by upbringing, my father a Protestant, but it was my father who introduced me to the idea of atheism when I was a kid. Disagreeing with them was never easy on any topic, be it politics or religion, but I never worried about it much.

I must say it seems irrational, to put it gently, to expect theist parents to accept atheism in their children, especially if they belong to the more conservative cults. “It’s okay for you to be atheist”? Come on. That is, in conservative Christian terms, equivalent to saying, “It’s okay for you to want to go to Hell, where pitchfork-dicked demons will munch on your brain for eternity.” Which is like saying, “It’s okay for you to lie down in front of a speeding train.” Given their beliefs, it would be a dereliction on their part not to reject a child’s atheism.

What the demand for acceptance implies is that atheism and theism are trivial choices, like hairstyle or the kind of car you drive. It’s not even on the level of deciding to be an artist when your parents want you to be a doctor, which is more serious, but a demand for accomodation if not acceptance would still be in order. I certainly don’t think that atheism is trivial; I know that people who take their religion seriously don’t think theism is trivial either. It’s a serious disagreement on basic values.

Given the number of comments which borrow the term “come out” in this context, it might be good to point out that homosexuality also is a different kind of case. Though many people do consider homosexuality a serious moral transgression, my being gay does not challenge my parents’ heterosexuality. (It might challenge the belief system which looks down on me, but that’s a different matter.) I can be gay without demanding that they be gay, and I can expect them to return the courtesy.

But atheism is different. I do believe, and I do say that theists are wrong, and ideally they should stop believing in their gods. It does not bother me personally that they think I should apostatize to theism; of course they think that. If you’re the kind of person who takes disagreement this personally, you’ve got issues that you need to deal with.

I guess I’m too old to care what my mom thinks about my atheism. I might be able to convince her of my position if I argued with her enough but she’s getting on and it seems to me wrong to try to “correct” the harmless delusions of an old woman. It’s not as though she would do anything different with her life as an atheist. Plus we really only see each other once or twice a year.

I haven’t read the comments above, but I was curious to see how many people had similar things said to them after expressing their atheism. My parents told me the following:
“You’re just going through a phrase (I was 19 at the time).”
“I doubted God once, but then I simply realized I was wrong.”
“Who do you think you are? Everyone around the world believes in God and you think you’re so special that you’ve discovered they’re all wrong.”

“Who do you think you are? Everyone around the world believes in God and you think you’re so special that you’ve discovered they’re all wrong.”

I point out that 93% of top scientists are atheists or agnostics.

What a better group of people to keep company with!

I must say it seems irrational, to put it gently, to expect theist parents to accept atheism in their children, especially if they belong to the more conservative cults. “It’s okay for you to be atheist”? Come on. That is, in conservative Christian terms, equivalent to saying, “It’s okay for you to want to go to Hell, where pitchfork-dicked demons will munch on your brain for eternity.”

Exactly my point. They can’t and won’t accept it, not without the inquisition first.

You are making the assumption that fundamentalist Christians are rational? Listen, devout Christians are generally very emotional people. And emotional people go with their guts and not rational judgment. So, like in my case, my very religious parents consider their love for me more important than my religious faith.

You can’t talk to theists because they would look at you as a heretic and/or an apostate, if you came out and directly said, “I’m a non-theist” or “I’m an atheist”.

I think you are making a huge logical error when you apply your experiences to the rest of us as a “norm”. Just because your family is shallow and ignorant, doesn’t mean that their faith alone is the cause. The majority of my almost universally religious family doesn’t agree with me, but that is where it stops. I am still family. I get invited to the lake, and I even live with a few religious cousins while I go to school.

I’ll second the “Just a phase” and raise you a “You haven’t thought this through.”

If this where your dialogue stopped, than that is your fault. I heard all of this from my father at first, but I pushed the conversation/debate further until I felt comfortable that he understood my position even if he still disagreed with it.

We need always to remember that absence of proof is NOT proof of absence. Denying any proofs does not one bit disprove or even diminish the theological perspective.

Deuteronomy 28:66 “And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:” Matthew 14:31 “And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?” Luke 12:29 “And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.” Romans 14:23 “And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.”

Doubt does not = faith. How can anyone doubt God is beyond me there is evidence but it is your presupposition that keeps you from the truth.

I wish my parents had said “you don’t have to pretend you’re straight and get married just to please us. We love you though you’re gay and we would have preferred that you be happy than spend 20 years in a loveless, sexless marriage just to please us.”

Just wanted to say that I appreciate all you guys willingness to talk about it. I’m a Christian with three young kids, and your words have helped me think through how I will respond if the day comes that they do not share my beliefs. Thanks for the openness and honesty, guys.

Dan,

Let this thread be a safe place … if you want to do your apologetics, at least pick a thread where it’s half-way appropriate.

Keith you are a pretty cool guy.

I point out that 93% of top scientists are atheists or agnostics. Ollie,

You could come up with that figure, if you defined “top scientist” and were inclusive enough in your definitions of “atheists” or “agnostics” but I don’t believe it’s accurate. I think that even PZ might say it’s about 60%. Which isn’t particularly surprising considering that most of scientists are steeped in the quasi-religion of materialism and, in the worst cases, the superstition of scientism. Quite simply, I’m not interested in what “top scientists” think about anything outside of their profession unless they show me they know what they’re talking about. Quite often, outside of their specialty they’re no better informed than anyone else.

Dan Marvin, have you sold all that you have and given the money to the poor?

The cross was an instrument of torture and execution. What Jesus said when he was alive was important, the means the Romans used to execute him for endangering their imperial rule isn’t. I don’t think your approach is going to make any headway here. Do you think these folks haven’t heard this before?

The Cross is God motivated by love, running toward the sinner to rescue him from the flames of eternal punishment.

When I hear people talk about Christianity like that, my mind translates their words into to something like “God died to save us from his own anger.” That just doesn’t jive with my idea of a merciful God.

It sounds to me that you’re pretty concerned about my eternal welfare. I appreciate the brotherly concern. I would like you to hear that for me, my lack of believe in God doesn’t prevent me from feeling “daily comfort, joy, inner peace, patience, self-control”. My life is full of those things. I sincerely believe that if I died today and (to my surprise) came face-to-face with a merciful God, he would pat me on the back, tell me that I had done the best I could according to my own conscience and knowledge, and he would accept my humble offering.

Dan,

Thank you for your response. If you want to discuss finer Biblical points, I am more than willing … however, this thread is not the place. Propose another thread on which to have that discussion and I will take part for a time if you wish. I will respond here only to a couple of items which I think apply to this thread.

Concern for the lost should be a True Christians priority, are you sure you’re a Christian Kieth?

In what way did urging you to let this thread be a safe place to discuss “What do you wish your parents would say to you?” suggest that I am not concerned for people?

In your post, you used the term “lost.” This is a reference to Jesus words that he came to “seek and save that which was lost.” Btw, he said that regarding Zaccheus … do you remember what the crowds said when Jesus went to Zaccheus’ house? “He’s gone to be the guest of a sinner.” Religious folk disdaining kindness shown to outsiders is not new … perhaps you would like to ask Jesus if he has read the Great Commission, or if he is a true Christian …

Too many times, Christians feel that kindness is enabling someone to go to hell. I would imagine that some of the parents whose kids are posting here feel that same pressure. Kindness is not enabling. Kindness is kindness. In Peter’s first letter he specifically instructs believing wives to win over their unbelieving husbands by their quality of their life, not with words. Being kind toward a family member who does not believe is not enabling … it’s being a good parent/spouse/etc. Not only would the world be a better place if all Christians understood this, but more people would probably be disciples of Jesus …

I like Bob Seger, and he likes that old-time rock-and-troll.

Thanks for posting.

Dan Marvin, if you are familiar with the Gospels you will, no doubt, be familiar with the instructions that if your message is rejected that you are to go and wipe the dust from your feet.

This is a reference to Jesus words that he came to “seek and save that which was lost.” Btw, he said that regarding Zaccheus … do you remember what the crowds said when Jesus went to Zaccheus’ house? “He’s gone to be the guest of a sinner.” Religious folk disdaining kindness shown to outsiders is not new … perhaps you would like to ask Jesus if he has read the Great Commission, or if he is a true Christian …

On Keith’s note, may I remind you, Dan, that Jesus ate with the sinners. He may have preached, but not all the time. Example is a far better way to relate to people than preaching. When you pound people over the head like this, Dan, you turn them away. You aren’t drawing anyone to you. Very few will want to be around you, unless they are in full agreement with you.

You aren’t drawing anyone to you. Very few will want to be around you, unless they are in full agreement with you.

Hmm, is that so?

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Kieth in defense of his atheist friends: “I like Bob Seger, and he likes that old-time rock-and-troll.”

cg also “Don’t feed the trolls”

TROLL, noun, often used as an acerbic, puerile, exclamatory insult — a knee-jerk _ad hominem_ often employed in a feeble effort to discredit another poster because one has been flummoxed, proven to be wrong, ignorant or incompetent. TROLL rarely has any practical effect and can be considered a form of farblondzhet, flustered, frustrated spleen-venting by the person who employs it.

Dan Marvin,

Please leave this thread … I would be willing to discuss your Scriptural points at the following: http://www.off-the-map.org/ebayatheist/viewtopic.php?p=11757#11757

Please leave this thread … I will see you there.

Seconded.

What a great thing we had going here. Then Dan showed up and completely derails the thread. It’s a shame. I’m all for speaking your mind and want to avoid policing of this forum, but there comes a point when such trolling hijacks the topic and ruins it for everybody. We need a janitor to come and clean up the pile of filth that Dan has left.

The thing is, no matter what topic is presented here on this site, because it deals with *gasp* other religions or a lack of religion, Dan feels the need to blow his load of verses all over the place to incite a riot. His ploy works time and time again. This is such a great community that I hate to see such rubbish continue to derail threads.

If he did this kind of disruptive behavior in a public place he’d be thrown out so fast he’d land on the far side of the street. I’m thoroughly sick of him and his destructive intrusions. I want him banned.

You do mean a private place right? The internet is a public place, you are after all on a very public forum. I am merely helping protect the innocent from destructive people such as yourself. Yes I do open air preaching in public places and sometimes I get a response like yours but that will never stop me from preaching the gospel.

Without naming anyone I received a comment from a proclaimed Christian here who has nullified the Law’s power to accomplish its purpose: bringing people to a knowledge of their sinfulness and their need for repentance and salvation. He has “neglected the weightier matters of the Law,” limiting the scope of its precepts to mere outward piety. Jesus called them ‘blind guides”who swallow a camel and strain out a gnat!” (Matthew 23:23-24). This is unacceptable .

Deep in my soul, Ive been so lonely
All of my hopes, fading away…
we’ve got tonight, who needs tomorrow?
Lets make it last, lets find a way
[Until the Judgment day]

I think it’s banning time!

Marvin, the internet is public but this website is privately operated. We all comment here only at the pleasure and approval of the owner, Hemant. Nobody has the “right” to participate here; it’s only a privelege. He has shown a tremendous level of tolerance and patience for people like you, but you have brought your obsessive, insensitive and perverse venom into a discussion where it is not only off topic it’s downright outrageous. There are rules of ettiquete and common sense and you have violated those far too many times. I know this is not the first place you’ve been kicked out of. You don’t seem to learn.

You are very, very bad at what you pretend to want to do, winning people over to your beliefs. Actually you’re an excellent recruiter for atheism. Many of the deconversion stories heard on sites like this include an abusive lunatic like you as the primary reason people left Christianity. You said in sales numbers are everyting. You’re fired. Our numbers are growing in large part because of failures like you. I feel really sorry for your kids. They’re very likely to end up telling their horror stories on a blog like this about their fruitcake father.

What you are very, very good at is what you really want, getting attention and flattering your sad little ego. The only topic of discussion you’re interested in is Dan Marvin. The only opinion you pay any attention to is the opinion of Dan Marvin. The only needs you care about are those of Dan Marvin. You don’t give a rat’s ass about what disruptive, destructive havoc you wreak when you blunder into a thread like this as long as you get everybody to stop and turn their attention to Dan Marvin.

“Remember my face when our eyes meet in the afterlife. My name is Dan Marvin”

What a perfect example of the self importance of an egomaniac. The Great Dan Marvin, whose hell obsession and screwball, custom made religious ideas leave him utterly, utterly alone in his self-assured little universe where the only god he really worships is named DAN MARVIN.

You, who are so proudly, so vainly, so arrogantly sure you intimately know God’s mind better than anyone else, you who pass judgement of damnation on everyone who doesn’t exactly, exactly agree with every bit of your home made religion, you who dare speak for God as if you are God, you who are incapable of considering that you could be wrong about anything, that you don’t necessarily know it all perfectly, you who have no idea about when and where is an appropriate time and place to do your self-styled preaching, you don’t really “give a damn” about anybody but Dan Marvin. Otherwise you’d stop and consider that perhaps you have made a blunder when people first ask you politely then tell you angrily to shut the fuck up and get the fuck out.

Go away, Marvin. Go away thinking that you were cast out because you were doing God’s work. Go away thinking that you were cast out because, as the Bible told you, the righteous will be rejected. Go away thinking you are right, we are wrong, you are blessed, we are damned, go away thinking any idiotic thing at all that feeds your desperate, secret hunger to be better, more pious, more righteous more right in every way than everybody else, but just GO AWAY!

“but just GO AWAY!”

Just %&*^ shut up and let us pound your God? Who is pushing their own agenda now? Is this the agenda of a friendly atheist that you are spewing, Richard Wade?

God’s wrath is upon you and if you keep this up you will perish. I care enough about you to say that.

I stayed on subject this entire time if you haven’t noticed. If I must spell it out I will. It DOES NOT matter what daddy and mommy thinks, what matters is what our Heavenly Father thinks of us. For the record I am a wretched sinner and deserving of God’s wrath. You should NOT to listen to mankind including me. You should listen to God’s Word of Salvation and you must be born again to be saved.

You are very, very bad at what you pretend to want to do

I was looking for a verse for you that I just couldn’t remember but by the grace of God I found it. I knew it wasn’t Biblical.

Phil. 1:15-18 “Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.”

I feel really sorry for your kids. I forgive you for saying that.

I am merely countering what people are saying to me here, for example:

Many of the deconversion stories heard on sites like this include an abusive lunatic like you as the primary reason people left Christianity.

Deconversion? Anyone that considers themselves to be past Christians, or ex Christians, or left Christianity, are fooling themselves in fact it’s an oxymoron. Are you posing that you can lose your salvation? If you can lose your salvation, then what do you do with John 10:28 where Jesus says he gives eternal life and the sheep will NEVER perish? If you can lose it then Jesus should have said, “and they may perish…” or “they CAN perish.” But he said, THEY WILL NEVER PERISH. So, will they never perish? Or can they?

A true Christian cannot turn away from God. Here is why. 2 Corinthians 5:17 “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”

Now look at 1 John 2:19 “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.” THEY WOULD HAVE REMAINED if they were really Christians to begin with.

Now a question for you. Are you saying that the Spirit begins the work of salvation in us and that we work it out and complete it by remaining faithful? That IS what you are saying, that we get saved and keep it by the effort of our works, right? Check this out. Galatians 3:1-3 “O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?”

Jesus taught it. He said those with eternal life will NEVER PERISH. John 10:28 “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. ” Well, will they perish or not? Jesus says those with eternal life will NEVER perish. I believe Him. Do you?

It isn’t too late you are not a throw away from God. Repent today and Trust! in Jesus and you WILL have everlasting life. You are not an ex Christian or a prior Christian you are a stony ground hearer or false convert. It isn’t too late!

Oh thank you so much Hemant! 😀 :hug:

Hemant, my heartfelt thanks. (deep bow to you)

“Friendly” does not mean “doormat.” “Tolerant and open-minded” does not mean “accepting abuse and condoning a hijack.” I welcome people into my home and show them great hospitality and afford them great latitude. But if a guest gets out of line beyond all reason then the door hits his ass as he leaves.

I did not enjoy that. Now I can get back to being a “good” atheist again. I warned people that when I used to be the “bad” atheist it got ugly.

I’m gonna take a hot shower.

“Friendly” does not mean “doormat.” “Tolerant and open-minded” does not mean “accepting abuse and condoning a hijack.” I welcome people into my home and show them great hospitality and afford them great latitude. But if a guest gets out of line beyond all reason then the door hits his ass as he leaves.

well said!

Yes, I agree, Richard. When we are here, we are Hemant’s guests. I’m just grateful Hemant finally showed him the door. However, I do feel sorry for the guy. He has so much guilt and fear that he projects it onto other. I just don’t understand how anyone can enjoy or appreciate their life when they are so miserable. The thing is, I don’t think he realizes just how bad off emotionally and mentally he is. It’s really sad.

amen to that! lol

I don’t know what kind of advice you can give him, cg. I mean, yeah, I took my sons to the Episcopal church when they were young, but I explained to them that the Bible is full of stories. Nothing was ever taken literally- not even at church. It’s not the inerrant word of God, but that’s the difference between a liberal church, like the Episcopal Church and a Fundie church. I don’t know of any minister in the Episcopal Church that will insist it is the inerrant word of God or even tell you it is.

When my sons became teenagers, we quit going. It wasn’t any big deal. They didn’t want to go and I really didn’t want to go either. So, it was like, “What the hell? Why bother? It’s not important to any of us.”

My sons nor I ever really bought it. Probably because I taught them to think for themselves and I never told them what to believe.

I think that is why I can’t give you any advice.