How Dare You Speak the Truth!?

There are plenty of bad things about this; but you have some key facts wrong.

The student was NOT suspended for expressing his views on marijuana. He was suspended for protest actions afterwards, in which he organized some passive resistance. Specifically, he organized a walkout, the school countered with a lockdown, and he was suspended for disobeying the lockdown.

This is not intended to support the actions of the school. It is a matter of getting the information accurate.

Cheers — Chris (Duae Quartunciae)

I just like the word Saskatchewanian.

Are they trying to teach kids not to think?

Maybe they’re trying to teach the kids not to use, so that they can think.

The kid raises an important point that he may not realize. What authority figures tell kids about drugs has to be accurate or it will backfire. If he calls into question what he’s been told, he should be asked to cite what he says he’s been reading, and give it a proper debate. It could have been turned into a school-wide research project. There’s a whole lot of falsehood said about drugs pro and con, so people decide to believe whatever propaganda they want to hear.

Decades ago my generation (back when we used chariots and papyrus) were told all sorts of scary and obviously false things about cannabis. That we’d go nuts and rip our own eyeballs out, stuff like that. We looked at each other and whispered, “that’s bullshit,” so we discounted everything we were told about substances, including the true part. As a result my generation was pretty much devastated by addiction.

This issue of well-intentioned falsehoods backfiring actually can relate to issues about religion and atheism…

And this is why I think America is on the road to being Communist.

You mean Fascist, right? Oy. Communism is the far left of the political spectrum, but our government is currently headed by a far-right administration.

Actually extremist dictatorships on both the right and left ends of the political spectrum employ very similar tactics to suppress opposition voices.

Oh by “centralists” I don’t mean the center of the left and the right, I mean those who would like to centralize their power, such as George the Usurper.

Richard, it does cause a chemical disruption in your brain, so that it is not functioning properly. I saw a kid in high school who was so spaced out on it that he was a riot, but also the class idiot. The whole class laughed at him because he was a real deadhead pothead and he’d always smoke it right before German class. He couldn’t do anything except be stupid. He failed.

Also, it impairs driving almost as much as alcohol does. Slower reaction time response.

And if you are allergic to it, it can cause serious respiratory problems. My older son and I know this from experience. We’ve never smoked it, but we’ve been around it and had respiratory problems. So, our fun was spoiled by some rude people. My son won’t even go to another concert because he almost ended up in the hospital with breathing problems. No, it’s not the smoke, because I smoke tobacco and we do fine. It’s the hemp, marijuana we’re allergic too.

I think it should be banned at all public functions because people are allergic to it. Why not? Tobacco is and it bothers people also. I also think IF it’s legalized, cancer rates will go up because one joint is equal to one pack of cigs, but I guess that is the smoker’s problem if they get cancer from smoking it. Not mine. Yes, some people don’t want to believe it, but mark my words, cancer rates will go up more if it’s legalized.

Long story short, Marx wanted his ideas for the working class. Have the wealth distributed evenly. The gov. assigns you an apt and until then you live with family. Communists/Socialists had long lines just to get bread, esp Russia. That’s not how Marx wanted it though.

Sorry, I’m confusing here. Marx wanted his ideas for the working people and to try and even out the wealth. Communists and Socialists did the apt assigning and distirbution of food. It was not Marx’s intension for his ideas to be like that. So, once again, humans messed up an idea that could have been good, but we’ll neve know unless someone can figure out how to do it right.

I saw a kid in high school who was so spaced out on it that he was a riot, but also the class idiot. The whole class laughed at him because he was a real deadhead pothead and he’d always smoke it right before German class. He couldn’t do anything except be stupid. He failed.

I know kids like this who never smoked anything. I’ve also know people who get high and have done very well in school and their professional life. It affects different people in different ways. Some use it as a crutch and an excuse and some use it to relax or be creative. The same with any substance, some people can handle bran flakes and some can not.

I think it should be banned at all public functions because people are allergic to it.

What public functions is it legal to smoke marijuana? Any concert/camp out I’ve been to, it isn’t legal but people do it any way. I think your issue it because of enforcement of polcies not the policies themsleves. If I got you wrong let me know where you see concerts. 🙂

I also think IF it’s legalized, cancer rates will go up because one joint is equal to one pack of cigs, but I guess that is the smoker’s problem if they get cancer from smoking it. Not mine

If cigs were outlawed cancer rates would go down. Assuming they are not driving or forcing the smoke on others, it is the choice of the individual if they want to ingest poison or not.

When I was an addiction counselor most of my patients used marijuana as a secondary substance in addition to the primary substances that were ruining their lives, such as alcohol, cocaine, methamphetamine, heroin or combinations of those. They really wanted to stop using their primaries, but if they continued to use their secondary they ended up going back to the one that was kicking their ass. Using the things that didn’t have direct negative consequences still kept them from clearly feeling their feelings and dealing with their feelings through positive action. In effect they never developed their “feelings muscles” so when a bigger life challenge came up they inevitably went back to their more effective primary.

Occasionally I met a true marijuana purist, who only used pot and nothing else. The most common problem they exhibited was something called amotivational syndrome; basically they had little or no ambition to do anything constructive in their lives. They sat around all day daydreaming about all the great things they were going to do someday. Someday was always tomorrow. To read a transcript of their words you would assume they were teenagers, but they were in their thirties and forties. The second most common problem was accidents on the highway or at work. In a different line of work on two separate occasions I came within inches of being killed by the negligence of on-the-job pot smokers using high speed machinery. I quit before becoming the reason for the company to clean up its act.

HappyNat is correct to point out that the effect of substances is idiosyncratic to each individual. There are strong genetic tendencies for problematic use in certain families, and some substances have a higher incidence of causing problems in the general population than others. So to say “always” or “never” causes the confusion and discounting of good advice when it comes to this issue, as I said earlier. Substance abuse is a huge problem in our society that causes great pain and frustration, so the hyperbole on one side and the rationalization on the other side muddle the debate.

But HappyNat’s point must be given the caveat that the effect that a substance has on a person’s life can change over time. A substance that you can “handle” can slowly change its effect on you but if you already have a long history of successfully using it without negative consequences, you will tend to overlook, rationalize and shift the blame for the gradually growing problems. So the user is very often the last to know that he’s no longer handling it well.

No one’s (translation: I’m not) saying that people should be high all the time. That’s a fricking strawman. We should treat being high in much the same way we treat drunkenness.

Steelman,
You are correct that testing for specific amounts of marijuana use is far more difficult than alcohol.

Because alcohol is water soluble it is metabolized in the body quickly, so a field test of blood alcohol content (BAC) generally reflects an accurate measure of the amount in the person’s body at the time of arrest. On the other hand THC, the active ingredient in marijuana is fat soluble and so is metabolized very slowly. It is stored in fat and can stay in the body for a long time. Sometimes when a person has not used for quite some time his THC blood level can rise if he exercises enough to burn fat and the stored THC is released.

This is one of the sources of confusion in court cases that defense attorneys try to take advantage of. Most inexpensive urine tests for THC give only positive or negative results, rather than a percentage in the blood. I believe it can be quantified in very expensive and slow procedures that are generally used only in research. Law enforcement usually has to rely on measuring impairment such as movement coordination or cognitive ability tests. It’s also why highly sensitive industries like airlines or railroads have zero tolerance policies for their pilots and engineers. If pot was legalized it would be much harder to justify firing someone in a position of public safety if they measured positive for pot. Public confidence would suffer and so would the industries. A few years ago there was a spate of fatal railroad accidents involving THC-positive crews. Train ticket sales took a nose dive.

Even if an immediate THC level test becomes available the problem remains as with alcohol, that setting a legal limit is in the end arbitrary. How impaired a person is on a given amount varies because of many factors. The legal limits of BAC for driving in most states have gone down simply because the public is tired of the carnage on the highways, not because someone has figured out exactly how much one can “handle.”

The so-called war on drugs is a complete failure, as someone else here remarked. That’s because it has focused mainly on supply rather than demand. It has been politicized by casting foreigners as villains and ignoring the responsibility of the Americans who pay for the drugs. Chasing drug dealers through jungles or off the coast of Florida is expensive and catches only a tiny percentage. As long as there is a demand there will be a supply. The American public funds the illegal drug trade with thousands of times more money than the government can spend fighting it. But this isn’t necessarily a good argument for legalizing drugs. One reason some people want to legalize drugs is so that the money can be put to better use in alcohol and drug awareness education and in treatment for substance abuse. But that shift of where we put our resources could be done without changing the legal status of the substances. Many laws are not very, if at all enforced.

The legal-illegal question is not really the pertinent issue. The issue is are we as a society willing to take responsibility for our own enormous problem rather than blame it on somebody else, and are we going to fix the problem or fix the blame.

whilst i don’t think marijuana should be legalised for general use (for all the problems listed above), i’d definetly say there’s a case for more extensive research on it for medical use. there’s been quite a few cases in england where sufferers of a long term debilitating illness, or even terminal disease, have claimed that its use has helped relieve their symptons. i imagine even more cases have been overlooked by sympathetic officers. the point being, if this is true, should we not research it further so that others can be helped by it?

to take this back to being an atheist blog, i’ve gotta ask – what would jesus do? given the philosophical, loved-up states of some smokers, would he have been a pot-head? :¬)

Watch this video of a school official explaining her actions:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvc5zLee–8

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxavtfDPZvE

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTDVdT-YjoI

Jo Ann, I don’t think your son did anything wrong by researching this subject or any subject. I am all for free inquiry, esp if it’s done properly. If he can show the information he is quoting then he did nothing wrong with sharing any and ALL the information he learned, which I hope is both sides of the issue. He certainly did not do anything to prevent him from taking finals, IMO. I do hope you are presuing this matter in a court of law.

I don’t necessarily approve of it’s use, but I have no problems with researching the various resource for more info on it. I think schools have gotten too uptight anymore about students researching anything they want.

I’ll have to go out on a limb here and admit to casual (but not chronic) use of marijuana. I find that most talk of the ills of cannabis use are in general way overblown when we are talking about responsible adult use. The problem is, at least for me, that the absolutely massive black market for obtaining cannabis infiltrates its way into schools and into the hands of minors who more often than not do not have the proper life experience to deal with it in a mature way. Legalization and regulation would help curb this (as it does with alcohol) and lessen the “gate-way” effect that the drug is constantly blamed for in youth. Regulation would also help keep cannabis pure and free from disastrous street versions that can be laced with other very dangerous (and physically addictive) substances.

I know many, many, many adults who use cannabis and DO NOT use (yes it IS possible to use a drug and not abuse it — there is a difference) other powerful and potentially life-threatening drugs like cocaine and MDMA. This does happen for some, of course, but it is certainly not the default or even majority choice from my experience.

The denial in the US (in most of our states) of legal medical use of marijuana is abysmally immoral and irrational. This is something astonishingly easy to fix, but many people with completely legitimate needs are denied this basic and most humane treatment. They often have to resort to the black market to obtain it, which contributes to the demand for that market and hence its continued and often adulterated intrusion into youth culture. Vicious and stupid circle.

Let me also add that cannabis can be consumed orally (the effects are actually much more powerful since no THC is burned) so that the health issues associated with smoking it can be avoided entirely.

I’m not trying to push the drug on anyone (no one who is even slightly uncomfortable with illegal drugs should consider it lightly; it is a very serious choice) but I just thought I’d add another viewpoint to the discussion.

As this topic relates to atheism: I realized through my own experiences with cannabis (and other psychoactives) that our perceptions are absolutely contingent, often unreliable, and easily shaken. Minute chemical changes (neurochemistry) can alter your grasp (or interpretation) of reality in so many ways. It’s often no different in religious experience. It helped me to distrust religious experience as an authenticator for supernatural phenomena. Evidence is FAR more important. Anybody else share this point of view?

to Miko: Exactly what I was trying to say, but maybe I should have put “religious experiences” in “scare quotes”? In other words, feelings of transcendence during a trip or a high don’t tell us a single thing about the veracity of anybody’s God claims — only that the temporary transmutation of perceptions can make one more susceptible to entertaining claims for which there is no evidence. Any clearer? (maybe not…;))

It’s funny that this topic came up. It was actually marijuana usage that helped me “deconvert”, if you will. When I began to ponder, then research the affects of THCs on the brain, it became clear to me that unexplained phenomena involving the mind was not the result of something supernatural but rather the brain’s electrochemistry. I grew sick of hearing people say “God has given me a word for you” or “the voice of God spoke clearly to me”. I couldn’t understand why a sane person would immediately think it’s “God” speaking to them when they’re hearing voices in their head. (But then, maybe a sane person wouldn’t be hearing voices.) Just as THCs are released in the brain during marijuana usage causing changes on the chemical level, years of indoctrinized fear and obsession creates chemical changes in the brain as well.