Bye Clark…

Clark Adams, the president of Internet Infidels and a good friend, committed suicide last night.

The message has been spreading through the national organizations today… Anyone who has been to an atheist convention in the past few years most likely had a conversation with him or heard him give an interesting talk on “atheism in the media.” He was an expert in pop culture and was always excited to talk about what was going on in the atheist world. He even led atheist trivia games (with sound effects) that always entertained crowds.

There are so many good memories I had with him that it’s hard to mention any handful of them in particular.

But when the “eBay Atheist” hoopla happened last year, he was one of the biggest supporters I had. He might have been more excited about The Wall Street Journal article than I was.

I was reading through the bio he had submitted when he was a board member of the Secular Student Alliance. It was, not surprisingly, very impressive:

Clark is founder and president of the Las Vegas Freethought Society. Clark is past president of Halvason, the Humanist Association of Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. This active organization was awarded AHA’s 2002 Chapter of the Year. Clark has participated in the meetings of the Coalition for the Community of Reason. The CCR is a summit meeting for leaders of US based national freethought organizations. Clark is one of the founders of the Secular Coalition for America – www.secular.org, a 501(c) (4) lobbying organization for the rights of nonbelievers. Clark has been the primary organizer and emcee of the annual July gathering at Lake Hypatia, the largest annual godless gathering in the Southeast. Clark has been published in Freethought Today, and various freethought and humanist newsletters. Listed in Who’s Who in Hell, Clark has spoken at two Atheist Alliance conventions, two Secular Student Alliance conventions, at Lake Hypatia several times and to various local freethought and humanist organizations. Clark is listed in various quote lists and quote books with his quote, “If atheism is a religion, then health is a disease.”

The same bio humorously went on to say that Clark was “a commercial real estate appraiser by day who… [had] appraised a church and an adult bookstore in the same week.”

Man… he was too young to go. 🙁

I’m not sure what his family is planning just yet, but there are a lot of people who will dearly miss him.

[tags]atheist, atheism, Clark Adams, Internet Infidels, eBay Atheist, The Wall Street Journal, Secular Student Alliance, Las Vegas Freethought Society, Halvason, Humanist Association of Las Vegas and Southern Nevada, Secular Coalition for America, Lake Hypatia, Freethought Today, Who’s Who in Hell[/tags]

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BlackSun

I’m definitely sorry to see him go. But as an atheist and a humanist, I think suicide is the most dignified way for a person to leave this earth.

We cannot choose when we are born. So we should damn well be able to choose how and when we die. I may disagree with Mr. Adams’ decision to do it so young, but I certainly respect it.

Does anyone know what’s happening with Internet Infidels newswire?
writerdd

BlackSun, I agree with you on principle that it is dignified to be able to choose your own time of death, but if Clark was suffering from clincal depression, then he did not make a choice. He may have died of an illness that could have been treated.

My condolences to his friends & family.
Siamang

Oh that’s terrible…. I used to frequent the II boards before the friendly atheist days…

What a tragedy. Condolences, Hemant.
Richard Wade

Hemant, my heart goes out to you for the loss of your friend. We cannot as yet know the causes of his suicide, and we can never know the fullness of his pain, whatever it was.

The best tribute we can give him is to copy and practice the best of his efforts.
Keith

Hemant, my condolences on the loss of a friend. I’m so sorry.
Karen

That’s awful. Very sorry to hear of it, and sorry for the loss of your friend, Hemant.
🙁
Mike C

I so very sorry… 🙁
Mike C

I’m so very sorry… 🙁
Helen

I just read this on iidb 🙁

Black Sun, I understand what you’re saying but physically healthy people who choose suicide are usually clinically depressed. That illness means their brain isn’t working right. When he made the decision he probably wasn’t able to see how much he meant to people and how much he will be missed – which is really sad.

Hemant, I expect details will be posted here. Quickly skimming the thread, it seems like a memorial service is being planned for June 2 in Las Vegas.
Anne Jackson – The Christ-follower

I am so sorry for your loss…my thoughts are with you and all who knew him.
Jim F.

I met Clark briefly at last month’s New Humanism Conference in Cambridge. Before that I had known him online when he was the moderator of alt.atheism.moderated. It’s too damned bad.
Holly

I had the pleasure of getting to know Clark while I lived in Las Vegas. I attended some of the Las Vegas humaninst group meetings and a group of us hung out afterwards at a restaurant we went to after the meetings. I have great memories of my time with Clark and the humanist group in Las Vegas. I remember Clark being a very commited activist, very intelligent and knowledgable about social and political issues, and he had a great sense of humor.
I noticed some posts about clinical depression on that board and realize that clinical depression can and sometimes does lead to suicide, but what people seem to be overlooking is how prejudice against non believers can cause distress to people who do not believe in God. I don’t think many people realize how distressing this can be. Non-believers are a stigmatized group and I remember Clark mentioned experiencing this stigma personally. Thus, I think it’s important to look at broader societal attitudes and behaviors toward non-believers rather than just trying to get inside of Clark’s head and diagnose him with a psychological illness. Even if Clark experienced clinical depression, I’d be shocked if the prejudice toward non believers didn’t play a major role in his depression.
Norm

Hemant,

I heard about it this afternoon from one of the Camp Quest listserves. I only met the guy a few times, but he was one of the most jovial and engaging people I have ever encountered in the freethought movement. He did a kid friendly version of his “Atheism in the Media” presentation at Camp Quest MN in 2005, and I still remember how fascinated the kids were to learn that people they had actually heard of (Angelina Jolie, Lance Armstrong, Bill Gates, etc.) were atheists. Definitely one of the best things from that year. August Berkshire said he had left a pretty long letter, but didn’t know much in the way of details. My condolences go out to you and the rest of the SSA board. We have lost one of the movement’s most tireless activists, and he will be greatly missed.

In sympathy,
Norm
Jonas

This is terribly sad news to me. I only met him twice. At The Amazing Meeting last January, and at the Humanist Convention last April. He was warm and friendly and I had a good time with him at dinner back in January.

I’m sad that I’ll never get to know him better.
Ruttle

I’m so sorry to hear this. It is very sad.
Jim Henderson

If he was as good a person as Hemant, Helen Siamang and others I have had the honor of meeting this past year then his loss is real for all of us. We need more human beings who are working for better relationships between groups who typically demonize each other. For all of us at Off The Map I want to express our sympathies to those who called him friend.
BlackSun

Of course I am very sorry for Mr. Adams’ friends and family, including Hemant. I was paying Mr. Adams my highest compliment by saying he died with dignity.

From the description of his outgoing and joyful personality, and his tireless activism, it doesn’t seem he was mentally ill or clinically depressed. Other than what he may have written, there is no way to know what his actual reasons were for taking his life. I am certain he had them, and to me it’s only important that they were valid to him. I give him my ultimate respect for his choice.
Pam M

Hemant, I am so sorry for your loss. I read your blog each day and felt the need to post today because I have battled depression for years. If he truly infact suffered from depression I can relate to those time when you just feel you can no longer go on with the struggle. Of course, we don’t know right now if depression played any part in his decision, however, having been there myself and knowing that my next door neighbor only knows the funny, active, and joyful personality that he/she sees and has not a clue of the struggle I go through at times in my life I can understand why some people would not ever know the entire stuggle that I sometimes face.

The sad part of this is that there is so much help out there today for people who do suffer from depression. As out in the world as it sounds Chris Adams was it would be doubly sad if he could not have found help for his condition. I will wait to hear from you for any update you may have in the future.

Again, it seems the atheist world has lost a real treasure.
Dan

I think suicide is the most dignified way for a person to leave this earth. That is sad and not true. You are breaking the 2nd Commandment when you do this. You are doing the work of the Devil by saying this, BlackSun (wow how appropriate your name is) Someone else died also but look at the reaction from the other side.

Guy Morrell, President and CEO of Bridge-Logos Publishers, passed away at his home on Friday, May 11, 2007. He was 61 and had been with the company since 1991.

He was so kind to me, once sending me an email that simply said, “The answer is ‘Yes’ Ray. Now what was your question?” When he was about to publish The Evidence Bible, a well-known publisher warned him that evangelism Bibles don’t sell. Guy said, “Ray, that’s why we must do it!” When Kirk and I arrived in Kansas City for a Transformed Conference, there was a voice mail on my phone saying that Guy had suddenly died in his sleep that morning. Kirk and I were shocked. We prayed for his family and then walked down the jet way, singing, “O, when the saints go marching in . . . .” A flight attendant smiled and asked, “Have you guys been drinking?” I said, “No. A friend of ours just died.” He immediately stopped smiling and said, “I’m sorry.” I answered, “Don’t be sorry. It was nothing serious…he was a Christian.”

Death is nothing serious for the Christian. It’s where the rubber meets the road — the ungodly have no hope in their death. But for those in Christ, it has completely lost its sting. I’m looking forward to seeing Guy Morrell again.

This is what being atheist has to offer, despair and no hope, how sad. If any of you feel this loneliness and feel there is no way out, call out to Jesus and ask him to save you. If you trust him and repent and stop sinning you will have everlasting life. There is NO despair in Christianity but there is plenty with atheism. Life is not this hopeless and let no one convince you that suicide is honorable like these flakes on this blog. There is hope when you understand that God is in charge and you don’t have to be alone.

For Him,
Dan
Mriana

Clark Adams, the president of Internet Infidels and a good friend, committed suicide last night.

Why did he do that, may I ask? Was he that depressed? If so, why didn’t he get help? Now if he had a terminal illness…

Anyway, my condolences to his family and friends. I’m very sorry for your loss.

Dan said,

May 24, 2007 at 12:01 pm

I think suicide is the most dignified way for a person to leave this earth. That is sad and not true. You are breaking the 2nd Commandment when you do this. You are doing the work of the Devil by saying this, BlackSun (wow how appropriate your name is) Someone else died also but look at the reaction from the other side.

Dan, you have to understand that for Humanists, if there is no more dignity in living life than euthanasia is an option. However, we are talking about Cancer vics, Alzheimer vics and alike, not those who are victims of depression in which there is treatment. COHE can explain it better than I can in their free sections: http://humanisteducation.com/ There is one you can read over without signing up (which is also free), but I’m not sure if it explains it or if one of the free courses (all reading) after sign up explains it.

Jeaneane Fowler explains it in detail in her book “Humanism: Beliefs and Practices” on page 273-280. However, depression doesn’t count. I’d be surprised if it did.

the ungodly have no hope in their death

This is not true. We have plenty of hope if we lived life well and to it’s fullest. Since this is the only one we get, we make the very best of it we can. There was a study done, but I’m not sure where I saw it now, Humanists and alike deal with death better.
Dan

“Humanists and alike deal with death better.”

Tell that to Clark Adams, may God rest his soul! We are to live in Jesus’ rest.

“Since this is the only one we get, we make the very best of it we can.”

So if you do not have the best life that you desire then you go into despair and off yourself? What if you are struck with cancer, become a paraplegic or go broke because of bad stock decisions. Then all hope is lost, if this is your only life, as you say. This is a very flawed way of looking at life. Instead of it being a glorious journey to the afterlife, it is a sprint to get what you want out of it before all is lost. God forbid there are obstacles and life doesn’t give you what you expect it to. You must see how destructive this life you are choosing to live, without God. Go ask Mr. Adams family if atheism is worth it. Wake Up!
Mriana

You know, the man’s family and friends are in mourning. Have a little compassion for them instead of condemning their son. 🙁

So if you do not have the best life that you desire then you go into despair and off yourself? What if you are struck with cancer, become a paraplegic or go broke because of bad stock decisions. Then all hope is lost, if this is your only life, as you say. This is a very flawed way of looking at life.

Being with or without God had nothing to do with it. He believed there was no afterlife, as a lot of people do, but you totally misunderstood what I said. I was saying IF you suffer from depression you get help from a professional and attempt to make your life better. You would have to study Humanism to get the jest of it, but no, you don’t just “off yourself” as you say and actually, if you studied it over, you would get a better idea. Euthenasia an act done when there is no hope of recovery from a TERMINAL illness. I was not condoning suicide, but there are a number of reasons why he did what he did. I do not judge people without knowing the facts.

Atheism was not the cause of his death either nor is it distructive. I don’t have time to sit here and attempt to teach Humanist thought on such subjects. Nor is this the thread for that. So…

Please stop judging and attacking people with religious dogma in a thread that is meant for condolences, not an attack on atheism and/or Humanism. Have a little compassion for those still living. Give condolences, not condemnation, esp since you have no clue the cause or the reason for this man’s actions.
Drakim

Dan, you can argue until you are blue, but, no matter how nicely a religion may picture death, it does not make the religoin true. If make-belive and wish-thinking could alter reality, then things would be very easy, but this is simply not the case.
Stephan

Dan, let me tell you as a Christian that your comments are inappropriate. People commit suicide for many reasons. We do not know what part, if any, Mr. Adams’ beliefs or philosophy had in his decision. Clinical depression and other emotional problems can attack Christians and atheists, Jews, Muslims or anyone else. It is a tragedy.

It was inevitable that some Christian would try to link his atheism with his suicide. For as much as it is my responsibility as a fellow Christian, I apologize. This is an insult to all of you.
Brendon Lake

You must see how destructive this life you are choosing to live, without God. Go ask Mr. Adams family if atheism is worth it. Wake Up!

I have to agree that a life without God is meaningless and I’m sure you mean well, but I have to say you arent improving the perception of the Christian community of those Athiests reading your comment. Only God can convince and I have to say you’re trying too hard.

Sad to hear about the death of your friend Clark, Hemant.

“All streams flow to the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place streams come from, there they return again”
Ecclesiastes 1:13
Steve Sutton

I hope there will be an investigation.
Karen

I’m sorry to hear of the death of your friend. My condolences to you Hemant, and to all of Clark’s family and friends.
Mriana

People commit suicide for many reasons. We do not know what part, if any, Mr. Adams’ beliefs or philosophy had in his decision. Clinical depression and other emotional problems can attack Christians and atheists, Jews, Muslims or anyone else. It is a tragedy.

I agree with you Stephen 100%.

I also agree with both you and Brendon it does not make the Christian community very appealing. I left because of so many other abuses like that. If that is Christianity, I want no part of it.

However, I’m glad there are some Christians here who aren’t like that. *Hugs*
FluffyClouds

My condolences to Mr. Adam’s family and friends. I can’t believe what I’m hearing from some of the Christians on here. As an ex-Evangelical Christian, who had a very strong faith in God (I could never have imagined becoming a freethinker), I suffered from depression and got pretty close to committing suicide. It had nothing to do with my faith, but the fact that I suffered from a mental illness called depression. My dad’s Christian friend killed himself by jumping off his apartment balcony because of his mental illness. It doesn’t matter who you are or what you believe in. I know, because I’ve been there, and I still struggle with it. And sometimes all the help in the world, all the therapy, all the drugs, even faith in your God, doesn’t ease the pain when you’re in a major depressive episode. The darkness and the pain is so unbearable that suicide seems the only rational choice. When I was a Christian, I’d rationalize my suicidal thoughts by saying to myself, “If I kill myself, God will surely forgive me and I’ll be in a much better place.” The thought of leaving all the pain behind and going to Heaven was very tempting.
Brent

I am sorry for this loss. I will be praying for peace for the family and friends of this man.

I also agree with both you and Brendon it does not make the Christian community very appealing. I left because of so many other abuses like that. If that is Christianity, I want no part of it.

However, I’m glad there are some Christians here who aren’t like that. *Hugs*

Thank you for recognizing that some Christians are not this way. I would hope that any view of the Christian community would not be so badly damaged by a few, but this is not the case. Some people need to keep silent. The teachings of Christ and the “community” that chooses to follow them will surely discuss the sadness of this loss, but will not ever discount the validity of how you feel. We may not agree, but we are all still human and need care.

Whether one feels they have answers or not, Jesus always taught to love..pure and simple.
Sean

Dan-
Your opportunism is shameful. Do you mean to suggest that only atheists commit suicide? Surely, that is not the case. Clark was enthusiastic about the atheist cause, and it is very unlikely that his atheism had anything to do with his depression. Your posts are almost as callous as Dinesh D’Souza opportunistic and wholly misplaced attack on atheism after virginia tech.

At any rate, my thoughts go out to those affected by this tragedy. I met Clark briefly at TAM5 as well as at a Richard Dawkins lecture in Pasadena. He seemed like a perfectly amiable fellow. He’ll be missed by the movement and his friends.
Jonas

I was saying IF you suffer from depression you get help from a professional and attempt to make your life better.

This is why I was so shocked last night, when I read this story on this web site. I only met him twice, the second time as recently as a month ago. I have no idea what lead him to take his own life. Who’d of thought?

You don’t just “off yourself.” Euthenasia an act done when there is no hope of recovery from a TERMINAL illness. I was not condoning suicide, but there are a number of reasons why he did what he did. I do not judge people without knowing the facts.

This is what gets me. I’d never suspected anything. But not knowing the facts, I can’t say his death was justified, or a waste. so I’m left with a mystery.
Brent Hodge

Why did my comment get deleted?

Anyway, I wish all family and friends in this situation the best. I am sorry for your loss
Joni Ruhs

I don’t know many people whose sole reaction is to rejoice in the death of another, Christ follower or not. As a Christ follower, I have lost loved ones who were also Christ followers. While I believe I will be reunited with them one day, there is still pain in loss. My condolences to Mr. Adams’ family and friends.
HappyNat

What if you are struck with cancer, become a paraplegic or go broke because of bad stock decisions. Then all hope is lost, if this is your only life, as you say. This is a very flawed way of looking at life. Instead of it being a glorious journey to the afterlife, it is a sprint to get what you want out of it before all is lost.God forbid there are obstacles and life doesn’t give you what you expect it to.

Of course, we will face obstacles in life, who doesn’t? Things don’t always work out as we want. When I am faced with an obstacles, I look to family and friends for comfort, I look within myself to see what I could have done to make/handle the situation better, and I try to remember these lessons for the future. If you think this is a “flawed way of looking at life”, I don’t know what else I can tell you.
Althea

Hermant, I am very sorry in hearing about Clark’s suicide. He was a fellow human being, and this is very sad news. I hope that you will experience comfort in knowing that you had a wonderful friend and colleague and that the difference he made in your life through his caring and love, will continue on. Take care.
diana

“I’m definitely sorry to see him go. But as an atheist and a humanist, I think suicide is the most dignified way for a person to leave this earth.”

Maybe it’s just my mood, but I find this a horrifying and deeply selfish thing to say at this time. If you can’t think of something enlightening to say, be banal and polite. Your comments were none of the above.

Whether you believe in god or not, the human race requires rules and regulations to get along. At a time like this, one simply bsays, “my condolences.” Save the pontificating for later.Sheesh.

My condolences, Hemant.
Curiosis

Screw you, Dan.

I never met Clark, but I can assure that his lack of faith in your imaginary friend had nothing to do with his death.

I have suffered from depression my entire adult life. I was depressed when I was a christian and would be now as an atheist if not for medication.

Unless you’ve got some evidence to back up your claims, take your preaching elsewhere. (By the way, the bible is not evidence)
BlackSun

Maybe it’s just my mood, but I find this a horrifying and deeply selfish thing to say at this time. If you can’t think of something enlightening to say, be banal and polite. Your comments were none of the above.

Hey, diana, get off your self-righteous high horse. Who appointed you mistress of suicide etiquette?

I happen to admire many people who killed themselves, not the least of whom being Hunter Thompson, who offed himself in style and had his ashes shot out of a cannon. There was also Boston lead singer Brad Delp, whose voice many of us grew up listening to–killed himself with two charcoal barbecue grills and had the courtesy to leave warning notes so no one else would be harmed by the fumes.

I paid Mr. Adams my highest compliment. That was my eulogy, a statement of respect. Who are you to say how I should feel about a tragedy? If there’s a silver lining to be had, it’s not in wallowing in platitudes like “people who kill themselves are mentally ill, etc.” I celebrate a person’s life, and their final choice. I think it takes guts and courage to check out of this world when you decide, and on your own terms.

That’s my opinion, and I think this is a perfectly appropriate time to express it. It’s what some would call a “teachable moment.” If I had had the privilege of knowing Mr. Adams, I would have said the same thing at his funeral. If this happened to a member of my own family, my reaction would also be the same.
Dan

please post my response Hermant
Richard Wade

Does anyone know what has happened to MTran? I’m concerned because I understand he has health issues. Sorry for being off topic, but a lot of people are visiting this posting so I want to ask here. I also asked over at Mike C’s #6 and this will be the last time. Please pardon the interruption.
DUTCHIE

Mr. Clark Adams was a man who was admired, respected, appreciated and applauded. A true giant of a man of the 21st Century.
Judy Doolittle

Hi Hemant,
It has taken me a while to get back to the hundreds of postings and emails about my life partner, Clark Adams. It was such a pleasure to get to know you at the conferences. I wish I could have been in Boston, but due to time constraints at work, it just didn’t happen. As Clark always told me, “Honey, we have so many conferences to pick from in the next year…believe me, there will be others.”
We had already purchased our airfare for Washington and Hypatia, in which that would be a double trip. I never got to meet Clark’s mom, so it seemed a natural trip from Hypatia to go and meet his mother that week after the conference. I enjoyed traveling with him so very much. I was as much of a convention junkie as he was.
One amusing thing I can look back on now was his collection of books from the conferences. Back in September while we were in San Francisco, I finally asked him why he would recommend a book to me, and then decide not to buy a copy of himself. He told me that he was afraid to tell me his rationale. We had already committed to a life together at that point, but it hit home when he said that, “Judy, when we get our home together…with your vast library, and my collection, there is no way I am going to try and organize double books.” He was practical as well.
I just wanted to say Hemant, thank you for all your kind words. It has been most enjoyable speaking to you…and I do owe you a few pictures from TAM when I can get my thoughts together. Call me anytime.
-Judy
diana

“Hey, diana, get off your self-righteous high horse. Who appointed you mistress of suicide etiquette?”

Who appointed you my censor?
Mriana

My deepest condolences, Judy.
Karen

Does anyone know what has happened to MTran? I’m concerned because I understand he has health issues.

Y’know, I was just wondering about him myself last week, Richard. I know he often has tight publication deadlines, so he drops out of sight for a while, but I don’t remember him being absent for quite this long before.

I haven’t corresponded with him personally, but maybe someone who has should check up on him?
Richard Wade

Karen, thanks for responding about MTran. I”m not often the worried mother hen but he once alluded to serious health issues that sometimes prohibit him from participating online. It has occurred to me that if something happened to the less well known of us, the rest of us would never know why we disappeared. I have become attached to several people on this website.
Dan

The darkness and the pain is so unbearable that suicide seems the only rational choice.

That is what is so sad about all of this. What is darkness? Well it is the absence of light. Darkness prevails without light, but as soon as light is turned on the darkness vanishes. There is a gift of hope and it is right here for anyone to take. When I was an atheist I had the bouts of darkness myself and they were so unbearable at times. My outlook of life was dark until that glorious day of salvation and the light kept shining and gave me hope. I heart aches for Clark and his family and I am disappointed in all of you atheists who believe all is fine without God and publicly declare War against him. As a soldier of Christ I am here to tell you that you will perish without Christ, plain and simple.
Dan

I have said it before, but it is like watching a child playing in a house that is on fire, I can’t stand idly by and watch all of you burn, my soul aches for all of you. Kids don’t know better and we try our best as parents to teach them how to take care of themselves but if they drink and drive they will go to jail and there is nothing we can do about it at that time, it is just too late. But if we take the time to explain and discipline them to show authority and boundaries there is hope. I am now doing that to all of you, you see your friend Clark, well he wasn’t disciplined enough to show him without God he would perish, and he did. It is not too late for any of you while you are still thinking and breathing. You never need a church to be saved; you don’t need man to be saved. You need Christ to be saved. God did give us a wonderful gift to give us hope and salvation. We all deserve the fate of Clark, we all deserve to perish in darkness but God doesn’t want that for any of us. Repent (turn from sin) and Trust (faith) and you will be saved.

Now to the Christians who believe I am doing things wrong. I will let you know how to talk to the unsaved: law to the proud and grace to the humble. That is the exact reason for Matthew 7:6 “Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.” If you just talk about Gods mercy then you will not reach people that need the savior. You will just get a bunch of people to “invite Jesus into their heart” and not get any true repentant souls. The Bible says It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The Bible refers to the fate of the unsaved with such fearful words as the following: Shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), Everlasting punishment” (Matthew 25:46), Weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 24:51), Fire unquenchable” (Luke 3:17), Indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish” (Romans 2:8,9), Everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), Eternal fire…the blackness of darkness for ever” (Jude 1:7,13) Revelation 14:10,11 tells us the final, eternal destiny of the sinner: “He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone…the smoke of their torment ascended up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day or night.”
Dan

Martin Luther King Jr. said “Christians should not be thermometers that merely record and reflect the temperature of popular opinion. Christians should be like thermostats, responsible for transforming and setting the temperature or standards of society.”

God is teaching me all things when I continue my walk in life (1 john 2:27) I am very humble and grateful that I was chosen and I want to tell every one of you that I found something wonderful. Without repentance and Jesus forgiveness of all your sinning, then you will perish. I will shout that from every mountain top until we are all saved.

You see it takes far more love to confront then to ignore the situation; perfect love is a constant confronter. Acceptance and conformity are not Christian priorities. (Romans 12:2)

For Him,
Dan
Dan

Martin Luther King Jr. said “Christians should not be thermometers that merely record and reflect the temperature of popular opinion. Christians should be like thermostats, responsible for transforming and setting the temperature or standards of society.”

God is teaching me all things when I continue my walk in life (1 john 2:27) I am very humble and grateful that I was chosen and I want to tell every one of you that I found something wonderful. Without repentance and Jesus forgiveness of all your sinning, then you will perish. I will shout that from every mountain top until we are all saved.

You see it takes far more love to confront then to ignore the situation; perfect love is a constant confronter. Acceptance and conformity are not Christian priorities. (Romans 12:2)

For Him,
Dan
Richard Wade

I am getting really, really sick of this asshole.
Karen

Karen, thanks for responding about MTran. I”m not often the worried mother hen but he once alluded to serious health issues that sometimes prohibit him from participating online.

Yes, I remember that also.

It has occurred to me that if something happened to the less well known of us, the rest of us would never know why we disappeared. I have become attached to several people on this website.

It’s good of you to care, Richard. One thing I think about is that sometimes (not always!) atheists may be less connected to others in their local area because they don’t have a “faith community” (church, synagogue, mosque) they belong to. Looking out for each other in a virtual sense is a positive thing we can do.
Eliza

My condolences to Clark’s family & friends, his partner Judy, and those who met & liked him. I never met him, but he clearly touched many people.
Darryl

Dan, if God is so all fired in a tizzy to get my soul into Heaven and save me from frying in Hell, then why isn’t He trying to convince me Himself? Why is He silent? And why would He ever send a messenger like you to do His talking for Him? You’re the best He’s got? He’s risking all our souls gambling on your abilities to win friends and influence people? Maybe you’re not speaking for Him at all. Maybe His silence means something–perhaps He doesn’t care for badgering and bullying people. Maybe He thinks a silent witness is the best way to go. If you are really “for Him,” then why don’t you act like Him and shut up?
diana

Judy,

My deepest condolences.

Dan:

You are so boring.
Judy Doolittle

I appreciate everyone’s kind words. To all the Christians out there, trying to condemn Clark for what he did. Sorry…I don’t condemn Clark for this action in a Christian sense. No amount of preaching will convince me, either, in any supernatural being. I am very content with my Atheism, being a woman of science and fact, but I want to assure the rest of you, it does not bother me. I will not spar with any of them, nor will I bother to try and convince them that we, the freethinkers of the world, are the correct ones. I guess time will tell…and besides, if there really IS a god, heaven, and hell, we are sure to have much better rock concerts. Clark…enjoy the music honey. You deserved it!.
Okay, so much for the bit of levity. I am doing much better today. I am still mad as well for what he did, have been creating and analyzing questions that have no answers…but I woke up this morning thinking that, instead of being pissed for the way he took his life, I am thankful that, if that was his chosen method, he at least did it neatly and cleanly, without any doubt from any official, necessitating any delay in closing the case. At least, if he was inconsiderate enough to kill himself and rob the world of his beautiful mind, I am now content that he did it the best way he researched, to cause the least amount of pain and suffering for himself and for us.
Thanks again for those who have posted the nice thoughts.
Judy
Eric Pepke

I’m not sure why I didn’t write a comment previously.

First of all, it was impossible to know Clark and not love him. He was that kind of guy.

A lot of people are saying that they never met him. Well, if you didn’t meet him, you met people he knew. You met people he worked tirelessly to bring together. You’ve read books by such people, which books would never have happened were it not for Clark. You’ve seen their television shows.

It was inevitable that his death be used for proselytizing. I’m not going to be angry at that, especially as it seems to be coming from a vocal minority. I do have to wonder at the motivation. I respect people’s right to believe, and there are many fine things in the New Testament. It’s fairly obvious that it is too early for closure and analysis; it is time now for grief and remembrance and all the things it implies, including a bit of anger. To jump in and try to use this event at this point is not only incredibly vile and ghoulish; it is stupid as well, because anyone with two neurons to rub together can figure out that such behavioral displays will only harden people’s hearts against theists. Is that the purpose? Is the appeal of being a beleaguered minority so great that people become proud of their unwillingness to show actual love?

I’ll forget about that for now, though. I plan to be at the Lake Hypatia do this fourth of July. I’ve changed my talk. It’s going to be about how to be happy pretty much of the time.
monkeymind

Is the appeal of being a beleaguered minority so great that people become proud of their unwillingness to show actual love?

I found this comment very insightful.

My condolences.
sherahmed maka

i was just going through this web and i read that clark adam commited suicide which was the worst means of taking your life. god has given human being such a beutiful life which has to be valued and make the best means to preserve it.he committed suicide because he was atheist not beleived in god who has created him by giving him life so that he will worship him and praise him every minute of his life and instead of doing this act for which was created he disobeyed god so god punished him by giving death for which he will never be forgiven and remain in hellfire for eternally. those who dont beleive in god even now is the time to mend your ways and understand why god has given you this life so that after death and in this life you will happy and after death you will have peace eternally.
miguel espinosa

why did doug stanhope mention him in his act?
miguel espinosa

the doug stanhope album is called ” from across the street”