One More Thing From Ray Comfort Before the Debate Airs

Scared to open you mind to absolute truth found at the foot of the cross; like Kirk I once thought like everyone else until I decided to study up and think —

oops I got saved, praising God for the last 6 years.

It’s hard to “backslide” from atheism to Christianity because you have to go from thinking to not thinking (at least if you become a born-again Christian, like Cameron & Comfort). Granted, it happens, but not often.

Backsliding from Christianity is also hard. Because you have to learn how to think. But as an ex-Christian, I must say that I moved forward and grew more — emotionally, intelectually, and even spiritually — after I stopped believing than I ever did when I was a Christian.

Guaranteed. When the smoke clears, the Christians will claim they won the argument. They don’t think of debate as having a winner or loser, they think of it as a form of witnessing, so as to bring more souls into the fold. It doesn’t matter to them what the atheists think about their argument.

In their minds, it’s unthinkable that they are wrong. The only conclusion is that people who disagree with them are purposely rejecting their message. That doesn’t make the message wrong, just the listener.

Comfort thinks he’s going to “save” atheists by treating them like shit? Yeah Riiiiiight…..NOT.

A note to Christians and other religious folks
If you want to try to convert me (or any other atheist for that matter) you have to start off by treating me with respect and not assuming I’m an atheist because I don’t *want* to “know god” or some shit like that. You have to assume I have good reasons for being an atheist and actually try to understand my point of view. You have no hope of even getting me to talk to you if you don’t show some understanding and NOT use strawman arguments against atheism as an argument for why your religion is true.

Even then you will probably fail, lots of other people have failed, but if you treat me with respect I’ll have a lot more respect for you and I might gie you another chance to talk to me about it later.

Oh yeah and “believe or you will burn in hell” won’t work as an argument unless you can prove that Hell is real.

LOL! Bananas are naturally comic things, like chickens. They’re just intrinsically funny. I always smile at the thought of a banana, but now I’ll never be able to eat one without snickering. Somewhere right now somebody is printing up t-shirts with bananas in the form of a cross and some smart-ass slogan. Go for it!

ROFLMAO! Stop it! You’re killing me!

I previously commented upon the topic of the low turn-out at the day of prayer event, and my primary point was that Christians don’t really believe that prayer works. Along the same lines it also occurs to me that they don’t believe in the gospel message either. According to the Apostle Paul, Christians preach the message of Christ, the holy spirit acts upon them by faith, and viola–we’ve got a rebirth! It’s the preaching of the gospel story that is the “word of God” that acts upon the unbeliever, not logical arguments of the theistic kind. But, I’ll let the man speak for himself:

For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning. The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the learning of the learned I will set aside.” Where is the wise one? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made the wisdom of the world foolish? For since in the wisdom of God the world did not come to know God through wisdom, it was the will of God through the foolishness of the proclamation to save those who have faith. For Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those who are called, Jews and Greeks alike, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength. (I Corinthians ch. I)

Paul’s argument cannot be more clear: My message is the gospel, not the wisdom of the world. Why? Because the wisdom of the world is not sufficient to come to the knowledge of God—it takes the gospel. The wisdom of the world in the form of theistic arguments was not a part of the Apostles’ preaching; it entered into the Church’s tradition from the outside, owing to the natural process of syncretism and the later rediscovery in the West of the Greek philosophers.

Now, before you Christians go scurrying to your Bibles with joy in your hearts because you’re primed to defeat the infidel, allow me to preempt your attack. Yes, I’m aware of such passages as these:

The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows his handiwork. (Psalm 19:1)

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. (Romans ch. 1)

Let us consider Paul’s statement to the church at Rome. This passage is often quoted as an example of the Cosmological Argument for God’s existence. First of all, notice that these words of Paul are being addressed not to infidels, but to Christians. Paul is not setting an example here for how to argue to unbelievers. Secondly, notice who it is that Paul says is making the theistic argument to the infidels—it is God himself, not Christians. Furthermore, it is God–not making theistic arguments using language–but letting his work speak for himself.

Do Christians really believe in the power of the gospel to convert the infidel? If they do, then why do they contradict the Apostle Paul and try to convince us using theistic arguments? Mr. Comfort’s claim that he will present undeniable scientific proof that God exists is a wasted effort according to the Apostle Paul—it is the wisdom of the world that God has made foolish. If that which may be known about God is clearly revealed by what God has made, then why do Christians keep pestering us with their theistic arguments when God has spoken from Heaven? Is the gospel impotent? Is Paul wrong? If Paul is correct, then you Christians need to back off with the rhetoric; if he’s incorrect, then you folks need to come over to our side of the fence.

I don’ t know where you get that Ray is quoted as saying he wantted to win the debate. He says “Please pray that God uses this to reach the lost, because that’s our aim. It’s not to win an argument, it’s to reach the lost.”
I did see the debate and the preview clip. I remember being an atheist when i was a teenager and i see myself how i used to be through the comments that I’ve read and the panelists and I see how I used to and hoe they focus on the wrong parts of a sentence or statement. For example instead of paying attention to the WHOLE statement or sentence I used to and they now look for any/one part that can be twisted or manipulated to confirm thier point of view.
Read it again “Please pray that God uses this to reach the lost, because that’s our aim. It’s not to win an argument, it’s to reach the lost.”
When one reads the whole statement it’s obvious that his intention was to “reach the lost”
I remember my english classes in high school and I may not remember the terminology but i remember that when reading a sentence or paragragh or chapter or book it’s important to find the main idea opps i think I’ve discover come upon it. the “main idea.”
So the main idea of the sentence is his purpose which is to reach the lost!
Unfortunately this mistake has taken place through out the debate.
Unfortunately the atheists missed the many points and proofs, and they scrathed at nothing. For example they misread Kirk’s and Ray’s facial expression to mean that they were stumped when in fact they didn’t respond because they had already answered the question. It’s a look of “why beat a dead horse why waste my breathe, the words fell on the ears they were meant to fall on and were heard by who was meant to hear them”
Atheist’s need so ,much proof and stare (figuratively-I’m a terrible speller) so hard that they don’t see what in front of them. Kindda like those pictures you have to look at and then another image appears. Come to think of it i was an atheist when i first started seeing those pictures and you know what, It never worked for me. Maybe I should try now with my new perspective.

Peggy,

We try as hard as we can to see things with an open mind and an open heart.

My open mind and open heart found atheism to be the most honest path for me.

You can read my story of my journey from faith to atheism here.

Don’t judge me until you’ve read my story. Please read it with an open mind and an open heart and you may see things from my point of view.